A frontal humilobotomy, if you will.
Trepanation.
Vinotemp and RH
- Thread starter kwoody
- Start date
Trepanation.
Pipe&Cigar
Grape Ape
Yes, you HAVE TO PLUG THE DRAIN HOLE.
I'm gonna get a tattoo that says this.
:r That made me laugh waaaayyy too hard! My Vino sits at 66/66 with 1.5lbs of Heartfelt 65% beads and a ambient (outside the Vino) avg. Temp of 80F. And yes the first thing I did was "Plug the Hole"! :ss
Yes, you HAVE TO PLUG THE DRAIN HOLE.
I'm gonna get a tattoo that says this.
There's no trap on a vino drain. If you don't plug it, you are trying to humidify the whole world with your beads. It doesn't work.
I've heard guys report that they didn't plug their drain and things are going along swimmingly. I can believe that, especially in the summertime with the RH hanging around 65%.
When the RH around the vino drops to 30% this winter, that story will change in a big hurry.
Guys, you gotsta plug the drain.
It's the same as having a 1/2 inch hole drilled in the front of your desktop humi.
I don't have the drain hole plugged and mine has been working great with the ambient in the 35-40% humidity range at times, with plenty of your beads, of course. I do see a difference in having a hole in the bottom vs a hole drilled in the front of your desktop, having to do with water vapor's tendency to rise. Diffusion of gasses would come into play, so I'm sure you're losing some humidity out the drain, but I think the amount if minimal unless you're specifically blowing it out the drain. During the summer, I have much more of a problem with condensation, making the drain vital.
Thanks for the heads up about the drain, thought I had read somewhere didnt matter (who knows maybe I just make things up in my mind?!) As RH has dropped in the house (now in the mid 50's) my RH in vino has increased to around 63, but again my beads are super soaked and I have a whole bowl of DW in there also. I took darrells suggestion of 'filling' up the vino, got an extra exmpty box from the B&M and put some more cedar dividers in there and will try to get more soon. Hopefully it will balance out soon.
Also, is it normal for the vino to be making a humming noise all the time? Even when the cooling is not taking place? Sounds like a fan to me. But mine is never 'quiet' is that normal?
Thanks for all the tips!
Also, is it normal for the vino to be making a humming noise all the time? Even when the cooling is not taking place? Sounds like a fan to me. But mine is never 'quiet' is that normal?
Thanks for all the tips!
Ya. its not loud or anything but it does seem to be 'on' all the time.
Vapor pressure, my brother. Vapor pressure.
We aren't talking about weight. It's not what causes the transfer through the drain.
RH is going to run as fast as it can in and out that hole. As your unit cycles and gathers water on the evaporator, the vapor pressure will drop in your vino and the ambient water vapor will rush in so fast you should hear it whistle.
If you plug the drain the condensate problem will stop. I promise.
Plug it, dry the condensate pan, and let the unit cycle for a week with minimal opening.
You're a man of science, Doug. Give it a shot.
Hmm, hadn't thought about the pressure changes. I'm going to have to give that one more thought. Although now that the weather's cooling down, the cooling system on the VinoTemp won't be running, so it's inapplicable right now.
As far as plugging the drain, believe me, I tried; I even rigged up something to catch the condensate. I checked it a few days later, and I don't know if the rig just didn't work or if I had condensation on the outside of the container, but I had a big mess with a bunch of soaked beads. My ambient temp in the middle of the summer is in the mid 80s most of the time, so the cooling system runs constantly. I'm not going to get around the condensation issue. It did slow down when I gave up on 65F and let it sit at 70F, though.
As far as plugging the drain, believe me, I tried; I even rigged up something to catch the condensate. I checked it a few days later, and I don't know if the rig just didn't work or if I had condensation on the outside of the container, but I had a big mess with a bunch of soaked beads. My ambient temp in the middle of the summer is in the mid 80s most of the time, so the cooling system runs constantly. I'm not going to get around the condensation issue. It did slow down when I gave up on 65F and let it sit at 70F, though.
mrreindeer
Gorilla
On a separate issue - Since I just bought the Vino... what'd you gorillas do to eliminate the fairly strong plasticy smell inside? I know, add boxes but anything else? I left the door open overnight, threw in my humidors for now until I get shelves/drawers and have one cedar box. Did any of you wipe it down with anything or just plug in & go....buy Spanish cedar.
I tried leaving the door open and it didn't work.
Get some baking soda and make a paste with water.
Lightly scrub the inside and then wipe down with a clean damp cloth.
Let it dry and then wipe down again with a clean damp cloth to get rid of any baking slurry residue.
Should be ALL good.
Fixed mine....then added Mtmouses shelves and trays....and then eventually cigars. Vino heaven
mrreindeer
Gorilla
Great, thanks! :tu
Hey Doug, it's not a pressure change.
It's vapor pressure.
Water vapor exerts pressure. Has nothing to do with RH. It's is more of a "how much water is in the air" thing.
The best way to give an example is to think about your house in the winter, because that's when the differences are so incredibly pronounced.
At zero degrees outside, the RH can be 100% but there's damn near no water in the air, because air at that temperature has very little capacity to suspend water.
The air in your house at 72 degrees may be 30%RH, but has far more capacity to hold more water.
Anyways...
The water vapor in your house exerts a pressure. It wants to go to an area of lower pressure, just exactly like the air in a balloon.
It rushes out of every crack in the house at an incredible rate.
That pressure is why no matter how many humidifiers you run, you just can't get the humidity above 55 or 60%.
This is why we use a vapor barrier when we build our houses.
By using the barrier on the walls, the water vapor is forced to rush out window and door cracks where the condensation won't rot our home.
When your room is at 80 degrees and 80%RH and your vino is 68 degrees and 50% RH, the difference in the suspended amount of water vapor is dramatic.
Water vaor will run in that drain just like the balloon I mentioned earlier.
That's where all the condensate is coming from, and it's why there is a never ending supply of condensate, and it's why you can't manage it.
Plug the hole, problem solved.
Now, being as you are running a machine in an 80 degree ambient that's designed to run in a 75-77 degree maximum ambient, you still have a problem of the peltier coil running constantly.
If it never shuts off, you'll have a constant condensation of the available vapor.
The only way to counter that is to use a high volume fan to evaporate the condensate and return it to the air.
This sets up a vicious cycle, but another thing will happen.
You'll also gain BTU removal from the process of evaporation that equals the process of condensation.
There's something at play here that you may not be aware of. It's called the Latent Heat of Vaporization.
When water changes state it gathers 32BTU per pound. At all other times it only takes one btu to raise one pound of water by one degree.
So when that coil is creating condensate, it has to remove an incredible amount of heat for it to change state. That means the coil has to work that much harder.
By constantly introducing a never-ending amount of water vapor, you are exasperating the already taxed cooling system to the point where it cannot possbly ever stop running.
If you add a fan that evaporates the condensate, you negate that latent heat problem because the evaporization process GATHERS 32 btu per pound.
That will take a huge load off the coil and and may just be able to get the job done.
So please plug the hole so I can avoid having to get that tattoo.
If I have to type all this crap again I'll crack. :r
My RH dropped down to about 61 or so and has been holding steady. The only thing that concerns me at this point is that the machine is constantly making noise (not loud or annoying but I have no idea if this is normal) and the fact that it is low 60 RH with my beads sooo wet and a dish of distilled water. The b&m can get me some boxes early next week to try and fix the problem darrell mentioned. who knows well see.
Well I unplugged the VINO and my RH is holding at 65% at bottom 69% at top (HIGH probably because they are all SO wet)
What kind of issues would I have with my vino being on causing it to lower (or not allow) RH to rise.
Like I said before the thing seems to always have the fan (or something that makes a very faint noise) on.
What kind of issues would I have with my vino being on causing it to lower (or not allow) RH to rise.
Like I said before the thing seems to always have the fan (or something that makes a very faint noise) on.
barbourjay
random cigar bum
the fan runs when the plates are exchanging heat to cold. cold air holds less moisture which is why you are seeing humidity swings. what is the temp outside of the vino and what temp do you have it set to inside?
the temp outside can be about 74-77 I have the temp set to the highest setting 68 or 67 I think
barbourjay
random cigar bum
i had the same thing happening to me before i plugged my drain on mine. get a cork or something and plug it to see if it helps.
I put electrical tape on it, to create what I thought was a decent seal. I guess I can try some silicone or something see if that does it.
The humidity drop occurs when the unit is cooling because the water vapor in the air condenses on the cooling plate's surface. Has nothing to do with the temperature of the air or that air's capacity to hold water.
Once that water drips down the back and into the drain pan that you've now plugged, it will evaporate and be readsorbed by your beads.
The reason the rh drops so low is because the coil condenses water faster than the beads can replace it.
If you turn the thermostat to it's highest setting (highest temperature) and leave the door closed for a week or so, the unit will stabilize.
The whole vicious cycle is exasperated by guys trying so hard to fix it.
Evil, isn't it? :r