Do the Patriots cheat??

[larryinlc]

This article is from ESPN.com

NFL security confiscated a video camera and its tape from a New England Patriots employee on the team's sideline during Sunday's game against the Jets in a suspected spying incident, sources said.


The camera and its tape were placed in a sealed box and forwarded to the league office for investigation, the sources said.

"We don't have any comment," an NFL spokesman said Monday.

The Patriots' cameraman was suspected of aiming his camera at the Jets' defensive coaches who were sending signals to their unit on the field, the sources said. The league also is investigating some radio frequency issues that occurred during the game.

The league's competition committee could conduct a conference call about the incident, which violates NFL policy, and ultimately recommend a penalty that could cost the Patriots a future draft pick or picks if it verifies that the team was spying on the Jets.

"It's not their first time," a member of the committee, who did not wish to be identified, said.

In fact, Green Bay Packers president Bob Harlan confirmed a similar incident that occurred when the Patriots played at Lambeau Field last Nov. 19. The same cameraman who was questioned by NFL security on Sunday was also the one whom the Packers removed from the sideline and escorted from the field during their 2006 game, according to Packers security official Doug Collins.

"From what I can remember, he had quite a fit when we took him out," Harlan said. "We had gotten word before the game that they [the Patriots] did this sort of thing, so we were looking for it."

A Jets official declined comment Monday, directing an inquiry to the league office. The Patriots also did not have immediate comment.

[mikey202]

Just one more reason not to like the Pats.:ss

[kdhoffma]

I'm sure there are more teams that do these sorts of things. How dumb are the Pats though, the guy gets caught last year, yet the Pats continue to use him for the same thing? Stupid!

[Cheeto]

Just one more reason not to like the Pats.:ss

or the NFL. College football for the win :ss

[SmokeyTheKid]

I think this sort of thing is more common than most fans would guess. Remember the allegations against the Giants in the NFC title game vs. the Vikings in 2000? I forget the exact details, but there were reasons to believe they'd intercepted playcalls from the booth. I remember an ESPN segment where they broke things down and it sure smelled funny.

I have no doubts the Pats might have done this. I just don't think they're alone.

[ssutton219]

No doubt they aren't alone but to use the same guy??? Come on he couldn't get it done last year so you let him try again????




Shawn

[icehog3]

They should have hired snkbyt.....He's sneaky. ;)

[vtdragon]

How could anyone think that the great sainted Belicheck would cheat? After all he is the man who regularly converts former bad boys into first class good citizens, (Dillon, Moss, Harrison?) and would never be associated with CHEATING to gain an advantage.

Oh forget it. Of course they cheated. They ALL cheat. The Patriots just got caught.

[Alpedhuez55]

How could anyone think that the great sainted Belicheck would cheat? After all he is the man who regularly converts former bad boys into first class good citizens, (Dillon, Moss, Harrison?) and would never be associated with CHEATING to gain an advantage.

Oh forget it. Of course they cheated. They ALL cheat. The Patriots just got caught.

I pretty much agree there. You have to be more discrete about it. I also think they also picked up a former jet the week before a game against them, then cut the guy the week after just for spying purposes. But other AFC East teams tend to try too raid the Pats for players as well.

Maybe the Patriots are turning into the New Raiders!!! Though they have dumped players like Katzenmoyer after some off field problems. I think they have been sure that the players with problems on other teams are willing to work in their system.

[doctorcue]

It's not cheating... it's a Competitive Advantage.

:)

If it isn't done on the field; it is probably done in the film room. This means that; he'll do this & they'll do that. Just go out there and play some smashmouth.

[jaycarla]

I knew there was a reason that they always knew where Peyton was throwing it!

Looks like they might lose a draft pick or two, the NFL I guess takes this pretty seriously.

Personally I don't see the big deal. But then I am not in the NFL. I know many college teams just have 4 or 5 guys signaling plays in. This would seem to be the easiest way to combat cheating, low-life, scum of the earth, toe jam, evil in a hoodie,................whoa, don't know where that came from.

go colts!

[NCRadioMan]

Yeah, they cheated. Every time Brady was in the pocket for 6 or 7 seconds without any kind of pressure, they had the extra time to film the other sideline. :r

[bpucci]

Absolutely they cheat, they have a machine without a pulse throwing balls under pressure. Thats gotta violate some kinda rule. :r

[taltos]

I pretty much agree there. You have to be more discrete about it. I also think they also picked up a former jet the week before a game against them, then cut the guy the week after just for spying purposes. But other AFC East teams tend to try too raid the Pats for players as well.

Maybe the Patriots are turning into the New Raiders!!! Though they have dumped players like Katzenmoyer after some off field problems. I think they have been sure that the players with problems on other teams are willing to work in their system.I would have no problem with the Pats becoming an outlaw program since we are often accused of being one.By the way, Katzenmoyer was released after being unable to continue playing following neck surgery not because of any off field behavior.

[ttours]

I agree with the competitive advantage line of reasoning. That is the politically correct word to use and then if and when you get caught the word changes to cheater!!

Thin line, but only if you don't get caught. I say this taints the Pats as the team of the decade and we should just give it to whomever won it last decade.

yeah I think it was the Cowboys, works for me!!!!:ss

TT:cb

[Alpedhuez55]

I would have no problem with the Pats becoming an outlaw program since we are often accused of being one.By the way, Katzenmoyer was released after being unable to continue playing following neck surgery not because of any off field behavior.

I guess I am confusing him with someone else. I think they drafted someone in the second or third round who ended up having a couple of arrests in the past. He got released without even playing.

They were also the first team that really came out and said they would not draft Randy Moss if he was available. I think I remember Moss's agent making some pretty nasty comments about the Patiriots then. But now I guess things are smoothed over. And compared to T.O., Moss is looking like Mother Theresa.

[hoax]

I don't see the big deal about trying to spy on the opposing team. Especially when the opposing team is out in the open. It's not like they were pulling a watergate and breaking into team offices in the middle of the night.

[NCRadioMan]

The Commish has just determined that visual evidence proves they did violate league rules. We shall see what the penalty will be.

[floydp]

Belichick will do anything to win, great coach but the jury is out on him being human,:r

They all cheat, or I mean try to get that competitive edge in all sports. I actually understand that, with what it takes to be a successful professional athlete or coach with the competition they have to beat out its well within the realm of reality to do anything it takes to be the best, cheese and crackers look at the dough those bastages make. Kind of like all the bull butter that Politicians have to sling to be elected.

If theres competition, theres cheating at some level. But then again I'm a cynic.:2

[Bigwaved]

The Commish has just determined that visual evidence proves they did violate league rules. We shall see what the penalty will be.

That can't be good for the Pats...

[NCRadioMan]

That can't be good for the Pats...

The most severe penalty is losing a 1st round draft pick to the team that was "violated". Everything I have heard by the talking heads on radio and tv is that the likely penalty will be a very heafty fine.

[BigVito]

They should have hired snkbyt.....He's sneaky. ;)
:r:r
I knew there was a reason that they always knew where Peyton was throwing it!

Looks like they might lose a draft pick or two, the NFL I guess takes this pretty seriously.

Personally I don't see the big deal. But then I am not in the NFL. I know many college teams just have 4 or 5 guys signaling plays in. This would seem to be the easiest way to combat cheating, low-life, scum of the earth, toe jam, evil in a hoodie,................whoa, don't know where that came from.

go colts!
Colts Cheat :tu

[mikey202]

evil in a hoodie

:r Ya, just take his beloved hoodie and burn it on the 50 yard line.:r

Hey..I'll be the first one to admit that he is a great coach and football tactician,3 Superbowls in 4 years, ect........But...... GOT CAUGHT!! GOT CAUGHT!!!!:chk
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f399/mikey202/dickhead.jpg

At least at Watergate, they tried not to be so obvious!!!:D

[BigVito]

:r Ya, just take his beloved hoodie and burn it on the 50 yard line.:r

Hey..I'll be the first one to admit that he is a great coach and football tactician,3 Superbowls in 4 years, ect........But...... GOT CAUGHT!! GOT CAUGHT!!!!:chk

if you have the enemies war plan in your hands is it really being a tactician?

[RPB67]

The most severe penalty is losing a 1st round draft pick to the team that was "violated". Everything I have heard by the talking heads on radio and tv is that the likely penalty will be a very heafty fine.


Better that than the pick.

OUCH !!

[taltos]

I guess I am confusing him with someone else. I think they drafted someone in the second or third round who ended up having a couple of arrests in the past. He got released without even playing.

They were also the first team that really came out and said they would not draft Randy Moss if he was available. I think I remember Moss's agent making some pretty nasty comments about the Patiriots then. But now I guess things are smoothed over. And compared to T.O., Moss is looking like Mother Theresa.I think that the player that you are thinking of was Christian Peter from Nebraska(?) who was accused on not playing nice with playmates of the opposite sex. He was drafted and then released within a week. He ended up with the Giants for a while.

[jaycarla]

The most frustrating thing is the stupidty to get caught. I seriously doubt the Patriots would turn in the Cards without the taping, but come on!

I am guessing Captain Bill and the crew will rebound just fine from this little episode. As much as it pains me to say it.

[ResIpsa]

cheater cheater pumpkin eater.

I say throw Belichick out of the league, that'll learn him:tu

I seriously doubt goodell is just going to fine them. I hear MULTIPLE draft choice forfeits are in the cards.

I don't know if league rules allow for it, but maybe they should forfeit the victory.:chk

[BigVito]

cheater cheater pumpkin eater.

I say throw Belichick out of the league, that'll learn him:tu

I seriously doubt goodell is just going to fine them. I hear MULTIPLE draft choice forfeits are in the cards.

I don't know if league rules allow for it, but maybe they should forfeit the victory.:chk

they should forfeit the season.

[ResIpsa]

they should forfeit the season.sounds good to me:tu

[BigVito]

sounds good to me:tu

we have spoken! Patriots are done. :)

[mikey202]

This article states that they've been caught 4 times.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=txpatriotsvideo&prov=st&type=lgns

[GOAT LOCKER]

From what I hear, the likely penalties are a hefty fine, loss of all 2008 draft picks and forfeit the game to the Jets.

[vtdragon]

Well, the league says the Patriots did get caught. Now the important thing is what will the penalty be? Reportedly Belicheck is supposed to have a hearing, (probably via telephone) with Roger Goodell and a penalty will then be assesed.

Today's Boston Globe says: "Because the camera and tape were seized in the first quarter Sunday, the taping most likely did not play a major factor in the outcome, a 38-14 victory."
Based upon that the penalty may not be too severe.

I'm a Pats fan and am hoping for the best. We don't need the distraction before facing LT and The Chargers next week.

[SilvrBck]

I don't really understand why this is such an horrible act by the Patriots. Classless sure, but enough to lose draft picks? I think they were stupid to steal signals in such a brazen manner but how hard is it to steal signals? It's not like the defensive coordinator is completely inconspicuous on the sidelines. Anyone with a zoom lens in the whole stadium could steal signals. A coach with binoculars could steal signals. Plus, one of the main jobs of a quarterback is to read the defense. I don't know. I bet lots of teams steal signals. Just seems the Pats are stupid enough to send a guy to stand 10 feet from the play caller with a camera in his face and get caught.

Now, if they are proven to have been intercepting play calls then they should be held over the fire and :bn.

Am I missing something here?

SB

[ResIpsa]

Am I missing something here?

SB
yup, I believe you are:D

Work blocks images, so I can't tell if this link still has the video in it or not.

Follow the link, and watch the video. Mark Schlereth makes an excellent point as to how this is just utter bullshit on the Patriots part, and how the stolen signals can be used to win a game.:tu

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3014677

[ResIpsa]

Now, if they are proven to have been intercepting play calls then they should be held over the fire and :bn.

SBBut that's exactly what they were caught doing:confused:

Stealing the defense signals is no different than stealing an offensive play call. The defense signal call serves the same function for a defense as the offensive play call does for the offensive, it sets the defensive alignment, stunts called, defensive package, etc. There is no difference between the two.

[DriftyGypsy]

How many of you honestly believe that the Patriots are the only team that does this or something similar on a regular basis. They just got caught...

[SilvrBck]

But that's exactly what they were caught doing:confused:

Stealing the defense signals is no different than stealing an offensive play call. The defense signal call serves the same function for a defense as the offensive play call does for the offensive, it sets the defensive alignment, stunts called, defensive package, etc. There is no difference between the two.

True true. I just wonder how many other teams do this. That doesn't make it right, I know. It seems that observing the other team's signals isn't the hardest thing in the world to do without getting caught. I bet this happens all the time but teams are smart enough not to get caught.

And, I know the players know which teams do this. They get a reputation. But, I have never seen the league bring this issue up before. At least I can't recall.

I guess what I'm getting at is maybe the league is being a bit hypocritical on this one. They have to know this sort of thing goes on. Belichick's reaction seems to make me think this type of activity is rampant in the NFL. Why has there been no action in the past? I can't believe it's because the Pats are the first ones to do it. It has to be because they were the first ones to do it so stupidly. And now the league has to act all tough on "cheating."

I think that stealing signals or calls is cheating. I think the Patriots simply put this existing issue on the map.

SB

PS: If you ain't cheating then you ain't trying. :D

[ResIpsa]

PS: If you ain't cheating then you ain't trying. :D:rso i hear.....

[larryinlc]

How many of you honestly believe that the Patriots are the only team that does this or something similar on a regular basis. They just got caught...


God's team, the GreenBay Packers, would never stoop so low.:):)

Larry

[Scud]

I'm sure there are a few videographers getting "reassigned" around the league this week. Other teams do it, the Pats got caught. People have been caught filming from the first row of the stands with $10k video cameras. They know it's happening because the cameras never lose focus of the opposite sidelines, no matter where the ball is. Is that cheating? Yes, but not as per league rules. It is pretty damned shady, though.

[mosesbotbol]

If there's going to be a winner and a loser, cheating is always going to happen. How blatant and to detriment of the game will have to be decided per incident. Some call it call it cheating; some call it “interpreting the rules”.

[Puffy69]

I always wondered how Marvin Harrison got open all the time..LoL

[GOAT LOCKER]

Since they already have a helmet radio for the offense, why not just give one to the defense? No hand signals required, easy to secure...

I wouldn't say most teams are doing the same as the Pats, but they certainly are not alone. When you are at the top (or close), you are going to be a target. Who cares if the Raiders or the Bills cheat? They are gonna lose anyway. :D

[BigVito]

maybe this will change how defense is run. there should be improvising to change how it is called.

[ATLHARP]

Since they already have a helmet radio for the offense, why not just give one to the defense? No hand signals required, easy to secure...

I wouldn't say most teams are doing the same as the Pats, but they certainly are not alone. When you are at the top (or close), you are going to be a target. Who cares if the Raiders or the Bills cheat? They are gonna lose anyway. :D

I would say that I agree. I think the hand signaling to defense is outdated and flawed. They would do better with radio in the helmet like the offense.


ATL

[ResIpsa]

I always wondered how Marvin Harrison got open all the time..LoL
don't make me biotch slap Tony Romo around again Freddy, :r

[ResIpsa]

Since they already have a helmet radio for the offense, why not just give one to the defense? No hand signals required, easy to secure...

I wouldn't say most teams are doing the same as the Pats, but they certainly are not alone. When you are at the top (or close), you are going to be a target. Who cares if the Raiders or the Bills cheat? They are gonna lose anyway. :D
from what i've read, this has been on the table at the last few owners meetings and has been voted down every time.

It will probably pass next time it comes up

[croatan]

don't make me biotch slap Tony Romo around again Freddy, :r
Hands off Romo, Vic. He's going to take us Phoenix this season :)

[tnip23]

All I know is my broncos must have a great counter-espionage department because they own the hoodie and his pats.:ss

It ain't cheatin' til you get caught, but they were caught and it happened on goodell's watch during the first game after he warned the teams that any kind of cheating will not be tolerated. Look for more than a slap on the wrist.

[ResIpsa]

Hands off Romo, Vic. He's going to take us Phoenix this season :)Cool!

He'll get to know Dwight Freeney real personal like while he's there.:tu


speaking of Phoenix, I have to be there from 10/14-10/18, hopefully I can find smoething to do, I've never been

[taltos]

Hands off Romo, Vic. He's going to take us Phoenix this season :)Is he the new bus driver?:ss

[BigVito]

Is he the new bus driver?:ss

:r:r:r

[Alpedhuez55]

Hands off Romo, Vic. He's going to take us Phoenix this season :)

Week 16 Dec 22 DAL @ CAR 8:15 PM

No, the CAR is for CARolina Panthers, not the Phoenix CARdinals.

[NCRadioMan]

$500,000 for the Coach
$250,000 for the team
Loss of '08 1st round pick if they make the playoffs, 2nd and 3rd picks if they don't.

Ouch!

[BigVito]

$500,000 for the Coach
$250,000 for the team
Loss of '08 1st round pick if they make the playoffs, 2nd and 3rd picks if they don't.

Ouch!

they got off easy

[taltos]

That whole penalty is bogus and in no way fits the crime. Hope that Kraft appeals the penalty and if not happy pulls an Al Davis and ties this up in court. As I said earlier, no problem if the Patriots want to run an outlaw program and align with Davis, Snyder, Jones and the rest of the outlaw crew. It appears that the vast majority of the league could not wait to turn on the Patriots. Let them reap what they sew.

[BigVito]

That whole penalty is bogus and in no way fits the crime.

:tpd: coach needs to be suspended and game forfeited plus first three draft picks.

[NCRadioMan]

That whole penalty is bogus and in no way fits the crime. Hope that Kraft appeals the penalty and if not happy pulls an Al Davis and ties this up in court. As I said earlier, no problem if the Patriots want to run an outlaw program and align with Davis, Snyder, Jones and the rest of the outlaw crew. It appears that the vast majority of the league could not wait to turn on the Patriots. Let them reap what they sew.

Reports are they will not appeal. If they did try, they have no leg to stand on. They were warned last year about this same situation and they lied to the Commish's face when they said they would not do it again. They are lucky the penalty was not more than it was.

[larryinlc]

So what happens to the draft pick? Does everyone move up a slot on the board?

Larry

[NCRadioMan]

So what happens to the draft pick? Does everyone move up a slot on the board?

Larry

Good question! Since the Pats will make the playoffs, they will not have a 1st round pick so everybody that is after them in the draft will basically move up one slot until the next round starts. I would think. :D

[BigVito]

or the Jets get the pick

[taltos]

Good question! Since the Pats will make the playoffs, they will not have a 1st round pick so everybody that is after them in the draft will basically move up one slot until the next round starts. I would think. :DThey will still have a first round pick since they now have two of them (theirs and the one from SF). They will lose theirs which will be in the high 20's or low 30's. Net result is that there will only be 31 first round picks this year because these picks revert back to the NFL and just die like the third round pick assessed Denver for screwing with the salary cap in order to keep Elway and Davis. That pick was never given to any other team.

[Bigwaved]

So, the clear answer is yes.

[mikey202]

Since he is gettin' fined $500K.... that means he won't have any money to buy a new hoodie...:hn

[tnip23]

That whole penalty is bogus and in no way fits the crime. Hope that Kraft appeals the penalty and if not happy pulls an Al Davis and ties this up in court. As I said earlier, no problem if the Patriots want to run an outlaw program and align with Davis, Snyder, Jones and the rest of the outlaw crew. It appears that the vast majority of the league could not wait to turn on the Patriots. Let them reap what they sew.


they deserve the penalty just for being that stupid and arrogant to think they could get away with it after warnings from the commish and with an ex-pats coach on the other sideline. as far as joining the motley crew of davis disciples, i would be thrilled to see the patriots become just like the raiders, who davis has made into one of the worst franchises in the league.

[OB1 Stogie]

they deserve the penalty just for being that stupid and arrogant to think they could get away with it after warnings from the commish and with an ex-pats coach on the other sideline. as far as joining the motley crew of davis disciples, i would be thrilled to see the patriots become just like the raiders, who davis has made into one of the worst franchises in the league.


Exactly, IMO, it couldn't have happened to a better guy. What an AHOLE!!! :BS

[ky toker]

Roger Goodell For President

Cleaning house and I like it.

[opus]

I agree with the competitive advantage line of reasoning. That is the politically correct word to use and then if and when you get caught the word changes to cheater!!If you murder someone is it only murder if you get caught?Thin line, but only if you don't get caught. I say this taints the Pats as the team of the decade and we should just give it to whomever won it last decade.

yeah I think it was the Cowboys, works for me!!!!:ss

TT:cb
Not to pick on any specific post, but wrong is wrong, is wrong. All is fair in war, but this is just a game, even a well paid occupation for some. This still doesn't justify cheating. Do the right thing. I would ban them for a year from football. They won't do this of course for love of the great dollar.:2

[FlyerFanX]

SO this proves it - they cheated to beat the Eagles in the Super Bowl!

WE WANT OUR RING!!!! :ss

[Alpedhuez55]

$500,000 for the Coach
$250,000 for the team
Loss of '08 1st round pick if they make the playoffs, 2nd and 3rd picks if they don't.

Ouch!


You call that a fine, thats not a fine...This is a fine:



http://sport.guardian.co.uk/breakingnews/feedstory/0,,-6919150,00.html

FIA confirm McLaren fine and loss of points
PARIS, Sept 13 (Reuters) - Formula One leaders McLaren have been stripped of all their points in the 2007 constructors championship and fined $100 million as a result of a spying controversy, the governing body confirmed on Thursday.
However, championship leader Lewis Hamilton and team mate Fernando Alonso have kept their points in the drivers' championship.
"The WMSC (World Motor Sports Council) has stripped Vodafone McLaren Mercedes of all constructors points in the 2007 FIA Formula One world championship and the team can score no points for the remainder of the season," the FIA said.
"Furthermore the team will pay a fine equal to $100 million, less the FOM income lost as a result of the points deduction," it added.
The decision means Ferrari, currently second overall and 57 points clear of BMW Sauber with four races remaining, look certain to be crowned champions.
Asked if justice had been done, the president of the FIA Max Mosley said "Yes".

[vtdragon]

OK now that the fine has been announced this is my take as a Pats Fan:

1.) It's too bad that the players on the Super Bowl winning teams are now tainted because of questions as to how much advantage those teams received from this behaviour. They don't deserve that.

2.) Belicheck did not need to do this. He has the most talented team in the league and IMHO is the best coach in the league. One of the reasons he is the best coach is his maniacal attention to detail and constant seeking of any competitive advantage. Unfortunately, he went too far this time and both he and the team paid the price.

3.) It says something about the NFL and sports in general when obviously talented people like Belicheck feel the need to resort to this type of behaviour. Win at any cost has sadly become THE mantra of far too many in sports these days. The world bicycle tour, Barry Bonds and the rest of the steroid crowd in baseball, Olympic athletes too numerous too mention, the figure skating wars from a few years ago and on and on, incidents too numerous to mention. It is truly sad and unfortunately, we the fans are at least partly to blame as we continue to idolize and reward the winners, regardless of how they won.

4.) One of the joys of being a Patriots fan over the past few years has been the feeling that, somehow, they were just a bit better than the rest of the league in their approach and were somehow a bit more pure sportsmen. They were a team you could be proud to root for. The Patriots famously ran out as a team for their first Belicheck led Super Bowl appearance. They employed mostly upstanding citizens and stayed away from the Raider like thugs that other teams lusted after. They held themselves out as the MODEL NFL franchise to be emulated by everyone. Well, the decline began with the signing of Corey Dillon continued with Brandon Meriweather, Randy Moss and now has hit rock bottom with Beliheck's videogate. Yes, I'm still a Patriots fan. I have been a Patriots fan since their inception in 1960 and this will not deter me, but I am sad that yet another icon of respectibility has fallen by the wayside.

[macjoe53]

OK now that the fine has been announced this is my take as a Pats Fan:

1.) It's too bad that the players on the Super Bowl winning teams are now tainted because of questions as to how much advantage those teams received from this behaviour. They don't deserve that.

2.) Belicheck did not need to do this. He has the most talented team in the league and IMHO is the best coach in the league. One of the reasons he is the best coach is his maniacal attention to detail and constant seeking of any competitive advantage. Unfortunately, he went too far this time and both he and the team paid the price.

3.) It says something about the NFL and sports in general when obviously talented people like Belicheck feel the need to resort to this type of behaviour. Win at any cost has sadly become THE mantra of far too many in sports these days. The world bicycle tour, Barry Bonds and the rest of the steroid crowd in baseball, Olympic athletes too numerous too mention, the figure skating wars from a few years ago and on and on, incidents too numerous to mention. It is truly sad and unfortunately, we the fans are at least partly to blame as we continue to idolize and reward the winners, regardless of how they won.

4.) One of the joys of being a Patriots fan over the past few years has been the feeling that, somehow, they were just a bit better than the rest of the league in their approach and were somehow a bit more pure sportsmen. They were a team you could be proud to root for. The Patriots famously ran out as a team for their first Belicheck led Super Bowl appearance. They employed mostly upstanding citizens and stayed away from the Raider like thugs that other teams lusted after. They held themselves out as the MODEL NFL franchise to be emulated by everyone. Well, the decline began with the signing of Corey Dillon continued with Brandon Meriweather, Randy Moss and now has hit rock bottom with Beliheck's videogate. Yes, I'm still a Patriots fan. I have been a Patriots fan since their inception in 1960 and this will not deter me, but I am sad that yet another icon of respectibility has fallen by the wayside.

Well said.

[SilvrBck]

:r

Q: Do you get to pay a half-million dollars in installments or do you have to pay it up front?
A: "I'm just thinking about the Chargers."

[ResIpsa]

Well.

Not as severe a penalty as they deserved, but pretty stern.

It's hard to feel sorry for the Pats or their fans at their tarnished Super Bowls, etc, , because there's no way to know that they earned the accolades or cheated their way to them.

It will be very interesting to see what kind of team the Pats turn out to be for the rest of the season. Maybe Belichick isn't the genius people think he is.

[Alpedhuez55]

THere has been bad blood between the Jets and Pats since Parcells left the Pats after the Superbowl 10 years ago. Mangini probably new the exact guy who was filming the signals, because he was an assistant for the Pats two years ago.

I think this is something that pretty much goes on for every team. The Pats were just stupid about how they did it. I am sure the Pats are reviewing their security films to try to catch the Jets in the act.

A Radio for a Defensive play caller are long overdue and should go through this offseason.

[BigVito]

Well.

Not as severe a penalty as they deserved, but pretty stern.

It's hard to feel sorry for the Pats or their fans at their tarnished Super Bowls, etc, , because there's no way to know that they earned the accolades or cheated their way to them.

It will be very interesting to see what kind of team the Pats turn out to be for the rest of the season. Maybe Belichick isn't the genius people think he is.

I highly doubt it Belichick will be seen as the hack he is.

[tedrodgerscpa]

Wow, SNF is spending TONS of time showing us everything we never wanted to know about 'frequency monitors', 'legal cameras' and 'sideline photos'.

Enough already, I'm ready for some football.

[drawfour]

Go Patriots!!!

[RPB67]

Go Patriots!!!

I hope they slaughter everyone like they did yesterday.

It looked like they were playing with a bunch of TOYS !! :D

[justinphilly]

If anyone watched the game last night what about the JETS new claim they are filing.. In this claim the JETS are saying that the PATS had a second camera located near the first one. They claim the PATS defensive line were wired, and the second camera was just there to record the JETS cadence.. This is getting pretty crazy, and if any of it is true, the PATS are lame.

I know every team tries to watch the other team's signals, and tries to follow their opponent's cadence, but this is ridiculous. and who better to know what the PATS are doing, then one of their former coordinators.

[SilvrBck]

We got fully dominated last night. I am officially in mourning. :hn

sb

[vtdragon]

Maybe Belichick isn't the genius people think he is.

Pats 38, Chargers 14

[justinphilly]

Pats 38, Chargers 14

so that proves he is a genius?

[vtdragon]

so that proves he is a genius?
No it does not. Just making the point that they didn't need video to dominate the Chargers just like they won't need it in Nov to dominate the Eagles.

[justinphilly]

No it does not. Just making the point that they didn't need video to dominate the Chargers just like they won't need it in Nov to dominate the Eagles.

after what i went through last year, (pissin people off in football banter) i am just going to add you to my ignore list.. if i continue this conversation, nothing good can happen.. bye bye vtdragon!!)

[ComicBookFreak]

I hear the Patriots have 100 of these on order for the upcoming games. :r

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/qf/c/ModernMechanix/5-1934/lrg_big_camera.jpg

Belichick should have been suspended also. Wade Wilson was suspended, but seems there is a double standard for the hoodie.

Regardless their legacy is now tarnished.

CBF:w

[justinphilly]

im curious to see the outcome of the newest investigation.. The JETS claim the PATS defensive players were wired in efforts to listen in to cadence etc...

this would be damning for Belicheck in my opinion.. Everyone tries to steal signs, but to wire players??? thats bad.

[justinphilly]

Regardless their legacy is now tarnished.

CBF:w


exactly my point in an argument at the bar last night.. Its the same thing as the Bonds argument.. He is easily the best baseball player I (29yrs old) have ever seen live. Hands downs a Hall of Famer, first ballot.. But he tarnished his entire legacy with steroids/hgh.. Why would Bonds do that to himself, and why would Belicheck do this?

[ComicBookFreak]

exactly my point in an argument at the bar last night.. Its the same thing as the Bonds argument.. He is easily the best baseball player I (29yrs old) have ever seen live. Hands downs a Hall of Famer, first ballot.. But he tarnished his entire legacy with steroids/hgh.. Why would Bonds do that to himself, and why would Belicheck do this?

I am a Bonds fan and always will be. I supported him thru chase to Hank. But truth be told I think Barry cheated. I am still a fan and always will be, but people are going to always look at his record and say it was tarnished with steroids. And it will always be a point of interest that he "cheated". I am Bonds biggest fan, but I am also realistic that he had some help while doing it . Just like the filming Belichick done was cheating and now he has to live with it being known that he cheated and his legacy is tarnished.

CBF:w

[Malik23]

Don't know how many people here read TMQ, but he had some very interesting and pointed things to say about the actions taken by both coach and team.


The situation with the National Football League is a lot worse than people realize, and the only one who seems to grasp this fully is commissioner Roger Goodell. You don't issue emergency orders backed by threats on Sunday morning of a game day, as Goodell just did regarding the New England Patriots' files of cheating information, unless the situation is a lot worse than people realize.

Why is the situation worse than people think? Because the NFL is on the precipice of blowing its status as the country's favorite sport. The whole NFL enterprise is in jeopardy from that single word: cheating. It's the most distasteful word in sports. And now the Patriots have brought the word into the NFL.

Think the NFL can't decline? Fifteen years ago, the National Basketball Association was going up, up, up by every measure and was widely considered the gold-plated can't-miss "sport of the next century." Since then, NBA popularity and ratings have plummeted while NBA-based teams have floundered in international competition. At the moment of its maximum success, the NBA became overconfident and arrogant in ways that need not be recounted here. Key point: There was no law of nature that said the NBA had to stay popular, and it did not.
Today the NFL is king of the hill in sports status, ratings, merchandising and association with the American psyche. There is no law of nature that says the NFL has to stay popular. Overconfidence and arrogance could be the downfall of the NFL, too – and we might be on that precipice. People will always watch and play football, of course. But nothing guarantees that the NFL's version of football must remain the super-successful money machine that it is today. There could be autumn Sunday afternoons in the near future in which the overwhelming majority of Americans couldn't care less what NFL games are being shown. Fifteen years ago, sports-marketing types would have said "impossible!" to the notion that only 11 percent of American households would watch the NBA Finals, which is what happened this June. Plummeting popularity for NFL broadcasts seems "impossible!" right now, but might happen fast enough to make your head swim.
Criminal behavior by NFL players, haughty owners who demand public subsidies, negative press for the union, coaches who snarl at the public instead of acting grateful for their privileged positions, insufferable egotism from multimillionaire athletes: All these things can be overlooked as long as the games themselves are good. If the games themselves are tainted, the NFL could tumble with amazing speed. And now there is a cheating scandal – cheating by the team that presented itself as the epitome of the sport – which calls the games themselves into question.

First we learn that the Patriots were cheating by using video equipment to steal signs, in blatant violation of league rules. Then we learn that even after the scandal broke and Bill Belichick issued his Nixonian stonewalling statement (http://www.patriots.com/news/index.cfm?ac=latestnewsdetail&pid=27686&pcid=47), the Patriots were still keeping sign-stealing videotapes and notes from past games. Surrender of the tapes and notes was the subject of Goodell's emergency order, first reported by ESPN's Chris Mortensen. Sunday night on NBC's "Football Night in America," Goodell threatened more punishment of the Patriots if all cheating materials aren't surrendered, and repeatedly declared it was imperative that NFL games be fair and equal competition. That's exactly the crux of the threat Belichick has created to the league's golden goose.
Consider the Sunday night contest. New England had played San Diego just four games back, in the January 2007 postseason. Perhaps Belichick's cameraman was illegally taping the Chargers that day, and perhaps Belichick illegally used the information against the Chargers on Sunday night. The San Diego coaching staff has changed since the playoff game, so presumably its defensive calls are different. But San Diego's new defensive coordinator, Ted Cottrell, was defensive coordinator for the Bills and Jets, both AFC East teams, in the Belichick period. Perhaps Belichick has spied on Cottrell's calls before and took out the tapes of the spying rather than handing them over as Goodell demanded. Was New England cheating again Sunday night, when the Patriots advanced the ball with such ease it seemed they knew what defense San Diego would be in?
And the Patriots' cheating might have been more extensive than so far confirmed. Fox Sports reported that former NFL players believe Belichick had microphones installed in the shoulder pads of defensive linemen so the Patriots could tape other teams' offensive audibles and line calls. Needless to say, putting microphones on players violates NFL rules. Andrea Kremer of NBC reported that several teams might charge the Patriots this week with having stolen playbooks from the visitors' dressing room. The convenient "malfunction" of visiting teams' headphones at the Patriots' two fields under Belichick seems to have happened far too often to be an IT department error. The rumor mill says Belichick, Richard Nixon-style, has file cabinets of info on opposing coaches and assistant coaches – some gleaned honestly, some obtained by cheating.
It seems more than just an eerie coincidence that Belichick's unethical behavior involves illicit taping, the same offense that made Nixon's actions so sordid. The parallels to Nixon don't stop there. Caught, Belichick – like Nixon – tried to hide the true extent of the prohibited acts; Belichick – like Nixon – tried to claim his prohibited action hadn't been prohibited; Belichick – like Nixon – immediately stonewalled. It would be tempting to break the unhappy tone of this column with a Nixon joke – when the league plays Belichick's tape of the Jets' sideline, will there be an 18-and-a-half minute gap? But for all lovers of the NFL, there's just nothing to laugh about now.

What else is there about New England cheating that the team or league isn't telling us? Are the Patriots one bad apple, or is cheating common in the league? Worst, did the Patriots cheat in their Super Bowl wins? If New England was cheating in the Super Bowl, this will become the darkest sports scandal since Shoeless Joe and the Black Sox. If you don't think Goodell and all owners, including Robert Kraft of New England, are in abject terror of any possible disclosure that the Patriots were cheating in the Super Bowl, perhaps you just don't understand the situation.

The weasel wording of Belichick's Nixonian statement shows the New England coach full of contempt for the NFL fans, and the NFL enterprise, that made him a wealthy celebrity. Belichick declared that his super-elaborate cheating system was only a "mistake" caused by his "interpretation" of the league's rule. Wait, "interpretation"? The NFL rule bans teams from filming each other's sidelines. There's no room for interpretation, it's a ban! Here's the NFL policy, from a memo sent to all head coaches and general managers Sept. 6, 2006: "Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game." Prohibited. There's nothing there to "interpret." Videotaping opponent's signals even after getting this warning isn't a "mistake," it's cheating. Belichick's cheating was not some casual spur-of-the-moment blunder but rather an elaborate staffed system that took a lot of work to put into place and that Belichick worked hard to hide. And you don't hide something unless you are ashamed of it.
Michael Vick tried to deny and stonewall, but at the last owned up and admitted what he did. That's dignity. Belichick is now using weasel words to deny responsibility for his own choices. What kind of example does that set for the young? "Make good choices," football coaches constantly preach to the young. Now, caught, Belichick wants a special exemption to responsibility for his own choices. Belichick also is trying to close the matter by saying he won't talk about it anymore. So he cheated and now unilaterally declares the matter closed because he doesn't want to face the consequences of his own choices. But this is not over and not going away. Before the cheating scandal, Belichick had a reputation for being heartless but a really good coach. Now, he seems little more than a creepy con artist, and it's the refusal to act like a man and take full responsibility that's really offensive. Goodell's draft-choice penalty against the Patriots – either a first or a second and a third – is the highest draft penalty ever imposed in the NFL. The severity of this sanction shows how seriously Goodell takes the violation. If more disclosures are coming, there might be a lot more punishment of the Patriots. And unless Belichick comes clean and stops lying about his cheating, this event should disqualify him from consideration for the Pro Football Hall of Fame – it is, after all, not the Hall of Cheaters.