It passed....No Smoking in your own Condo or Apartment....

[Uniputt]

Belmont, CA did it, as we knew they would.
No smoking in your private Condo or Apartment.
Now that this has been done in this city, look for it to come to your city next.

Sadly, It's just a matter of time.

Here's the story:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,300658,00.html

[Smoked]

LAME!

[macjoe53]

It's a shame no one has the money to challenge bans like this in court.

[kjjm4]

Doesn't "big tobacco" have that kind of money? They seem to be taking a lot of hits lying down now.

Given the degree that a lot of people have been brainwashed regarding the dangers of second hand smoke, I think it would probably be tough to find a jury that would rule in favor of the evil tobacco users anyway. If I lived in an area that banned smoking in my own home, I'd smoke anyway. By the time the cops show up with a warrant, I'm pretty sure I could have all the evidence burned :ss

[boonedoggle]

So, where can you smoke now? In the port-o-john? What about in outer space? Nazi's undoubtable run that town.

[jinny]

I like to call those ordinances "don't-get-caught laws"... I'm sure there will still be plenty of smoking in condos and apartments... just don't get caught. your non-smoking neighbors now have a legal reason to rat you out.

if you are considerate of your neighbors you would be more mindfull of the fowl stentch of smoke anyways... and I would argue, that if everybody was more mindfulll of it, laws like this wouldn't be passed.

get yerself some air cleaners and the such... and try not to impact the comfort of others and you will be fine... even if there are laws working against your own pleasure.

just my :2

[boonedoggle]

I like to call those ordinances "don't-get-caught laws"... I'm sure there will still be plenty of smoking in condos and apartments... just don't get caught. your non-smoking neighbors now have a legal reason to rat you out.

if you are considerate of your neighbors you would be more mindfull of the fowl stentch of smoke anyways... and I would argue, that if everybody was more mindfulll of it, laws like this wouldn't be passed.

get yerself some air cleaners and the such... and try not to impact the comfort of others and you will be fine... even if there are laws working against your own pleasure.

just my :2

heyyyyy, who's side are you on, anyways? :fu:D

[stevieray]

unreal...can't smoke in restaurants, can't smoke in bars, can't smoke in B&M's, can't smoke in public, can't smoke in your own car, can't smoke in your own residence.....BUT...let's raise the taxes on tobacco to fund programs. :mad:

[boonedoggle]

we're still fortunate to have restaruants and bars that allow smoking...many places with a smaller NON-smoking section. The Yuppie chains get smart by allowing smoking, but not if it's cigars or pipes! :mad:

[mosesbotbol]

If they try to arrest me for smoking in my own home, there's gonna be an altercation with the authorities I can assure you.

This law points back to my post yesterday that we are becoming a Totalitarian society in the US. This would never have been made law in about any Democratic society.

[borndead1]

2 words:


Civil Disobedience.

[uncballzer]

Is it legal to smoke cigarettes, cigars, pipes? Yes. Where do you live? Apartment. I have a right to smoke in my own damn apartment. That law will not uphold if challenged far enough.

[Blueface]

Any town can pass a law.
Holding up to a challenge is a different conversation.
I can't imagine some interest groups not jumping all over this and taking it to court.
Even if a lower court were to rule in the favor of the town and uphold it, can't see a Court of Appeals upholding a ban of a legal substance while within your own property.
Then again, its California. Anything is possible.:D

[jinny]

heyyyyy, who's side are you on, anyways? :fu:D
hehe....


I'm already forced to smoke outside...

misery loves company. :D




but in all serriousness, I think the laws are too overreaching... but if a persons smoke is bothering someone... I'd say that it's the smoker who has an obligation to try and mitigate the annoyance...

Just like loud music... if you are listening to music in your own home, I don't care what it is... but if I can hear it next door, you can bet I might have a problem with it... especially if it's late but even at other times it's a nuisance... I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to inflict some bodily harm to some punk kid that's thumping their car stereo way too loud at an intersection... why do some people feel that it is okay to impinge on others? it's clear that smoke bothers some people... and it is not my place to tell them that it's not THAT bad... even if they are not crazed tree hugging health nuts... if it bothers them, then it bothers them... and I for one am not into ruining peoples' day with my want for a cigar. Now if I can have that cigar the way I want without bothering others... then I think that is best.

laws like this wouldn't pass if our hobby/habit didn't bother others... but it does... but I'm pretty sure that it's not going to stop people from smoking in their homes/apartments/condos/whatever, legal or not.

[Smoked]

A condo is property that you own. How the hell can they tell people what to do on property that you have bought and paid for? Once again this is something that should be left up to management.

[macjoe53]

Is it legal to smoke cigarettes, cigars, pipes? Yes. Where do you live? Apartment. I have a right to smoke in my own damn apartment. That law will not uphold if challenged far enough.

Yeah. Why doesn't the ACLU challenge this one. It's taking away a civil liberty.

[hova45]

This is getting ridiculous now, first they want to raise the tax to 20,000% then came this announcement about this law wanting to get passed in CA. Obviously we know what is next prohibition to say the least. I hope that us puffers and smokers can unite and fight back this is just getting outrageous

[kjjm4]

hehe....


I'm already forced to smoke outside...

misery loves company. :D




but in all serriousness, I think the laws are too overreaching... but if a persons smoke is bothering someone... I'd say that it's the smoker who has an obligation to try and mitigate the annoyance...

Just like loud music... if you are listening to music in your own home, I don't care what it is... but if I can hear it next door, you can bet I might have a problem with it... especially if it's late but even at other times it's a nuisance... I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to inflict some bodily harm to some punk kid that's thumping their car stereo way too loud at an intersection... why do some people feel that it is okay to impinge on others? it's clear that smoke bothers some people... and it is not my place to tell them that it's not THAT bad... even if they are not crazed tree hugging health nuts... if it bothers them, then it bothers them... and I for one am not into ruining peoples' day with my want for a cigar. Now if I can have that cigar the way I want without bothering others... then I think that is best.

laws like this wouldn't pass if our hobby/habit didn't bother others... but it does... but I'm pretty sure that it's not going to stop people from smoking in their homes/apartments/condos/whatever, legal or not.

I'm all for keeping the peace, but it gets to the point where perfectly innocuous things annoy people and they try to get them banned. Some people don't like the smell of tobacco smoke- so what?

I HATE the smell of cheap perfume-that crap makes me sneeze like crazy, but I haven't ever tried to get it banned. I don't ask old ladies to move away from me because their perfume is making my eyes water either.

If we made everything that bothers somebody illegal, could anybody do anything at all? Where do you draw the line?

My primary complaint with such laws is that the government is stepping in and banning legal activities on private property. If they want smoking to be illegal, make smoking illegal everywhere. Otherwise, leave it up to the property owners, and it will sort itself out.

[Seanohue]

Hey, what about an "air freshener" that smells like smoke? If you can't smoke in your own condo/apt, you can still spite all your neighbors :D Stick that thing in the vent systems, people will be begging to let you smoke in your own room :tu

[uncballzer]

I'm all for keeping the peace, but it gets to the point where perfectly innocuous things annoy people and they try to get them banned. Some people don't like the smell of tobacco smoke- so what?

I HATE the smell of cheap perfume-that crap makes me sneeze like crazy, but I haven't ever tried to get it banned. I don't ask old ladies to move away from me because their perfume is making my eyes water either.

If we made everything that bothers somebody illegal, could anybody do anything at all? Where do you draw the line?

My primary complaint with such laws is that the government is stepping in and banning legal activities on private property. If they want smoking to be illegal, make smoking illegal everywhere. Otherwise, leave it up to the property owners, and it will sort itself out.

I've thought about that with the perfume. I've never had smoke make me really sneeze, but if I get around a guy that doesn't know one spray of perfume does the trick, I have to leave the room and go outside to get away from it. It's the same principle.

[muziq]

Just like loud music... if you are listening to music in your own home, I don't care what it is... but if I can hear it next door, you can bet I might have a problem with it...

You bring up a very interesting point--one that bears some sorting through for comparison.

Here in Austin, the so-called "Live Music Capital of the World," the fight between live music venues and homeowners associations/orgs regarding sound ordiances and zoning is pretty much never-ending. The issue is akin to abortion or gun control--the two sides can't ever agree to compromise, and are irrational in their strict adherance to their particular point of view. Lately, as the downtown changes, what once were "protected areas" for live music venues are beginning to feel pressure from new dense development projects such as urban in-fill and high rises; now, "entertainment districts" are popping up through the zoning commission with strict guidelines regarding decibel levels, times of day for sound tests/readings, and mandatory distances between residential areas and liven music venues. It would seem to be a necessary evolution to have the parties agree to play nice with one another through these advances in the zoning laws.

Problem is, neither party is playing fair with one another. Music venues are adding more horsepower to their amps as they add more soundproofing to their interiors (thus not really lowering their outside decibel level). Condo builders are buying downtown property through intermediaries who aren't parsing out the sound/entertainment zoning requirements and all of a sudden, a 40-unit development is going up right next to the loudest, largest, and oldest downtown outdoor music venue. The builders are millions into construction and the FIRST group to act was the venue owners, who in good faith approached the builders about the existing entertainment zoning rules that the builders were breaking, only to have the builders say, "look, we're too far along, so we're not negotiating."

If precedent is anything, the builders will win PURELY on the grounds that they have a better-managed public message than the music venues have: "we're adding tax base, reducing traffic, and sustaining local retail by creating downtown housing." And if precedent is anything, that will be followed by yet more ordiances limiting live music downtown. Next thing you know, we'll all be going to Dallas (fuk) to hear live music.

It's all about who's making the most noise...and frankly, we're all sitting on our @sses typing vitriolic sermons to the choir.

We need a Charleton Heston to stand up on our behalf and tell the smoke-haters that they'll pry our cigars from our cold, dead hands.

We need the whining p#ssies of Cigar Aficionado to put down their 1970s Davidoff Chateau Haut Brions and start a PAC that gets some f-ing messaging out there.

And we need to get the ACLU to crank up their defense of our right to smoke in that greatest of all American sanctuaries, our homes and places of residence.

I'm already contributing to my candidates who agree with my positions on smoking, organizations that support my rights, and next time I see Aahnold I'm going to punch him in the face until he agrees to get out in front of the world advocating for a more balanced approach to public policy on smoking. Or die trying.

If you haven't already done so, ask yourself, "what am I going to do about it?":cb

[mosesbotbol]

The whole notion of how harmful second hand smoke is really debateble. There's plenty of information to show studies on secondhand smoke being harmful can be refuted. Sure, the smoke is annoying, and that is what they are attacking.

They've got the whole world to believe an assumption or false science as fact.

Very little of these zealots really care about our health or health at large. There's plenty of other hazardous activities the incurr a larger price to our society than smoking.

[jinny]

nice discussion guys. :tu

[Aaron]

Belmont... on the San Francisco Bay, bluest of blue state politics.

Wikipedia says about the 14th Congressional district: California's 14th congressional district is located between San Francisco and San Jose. The district includes portions of San Mateo, Santa Clara and Santa Cruz counties, most notably containing Silicon Valley. It is one of 53 California Congressional Districts. Major cities include Redwood City, Mountain View, Sunnyvale, and Palo Alto. The current Representative for this district is Democrat Anna Eshoo. The district has a Cook Partisan Voting Index score of D +18, in the top 18% most biased in the country.

I just sorted that index and it's scary how politically parochial some districts are and more scary that nearly 10% of the most politically unbalanced districts are of one party:


St Dist +%
NY 15th D 43
NY 16th D 43
NY 10th D 41
NY 11th D 40
PA 2nd D 39
CA 9th D 38
NY 6th D 38
CA 33rd D 36
CA 8th D 36
PA 1st D 36
FL 17th D 35
IL 1st D 35
IL 2nd D 35
IL 7th D 35
NJ 10th D 34
NY 12th D 34
CA 35th D 33
MI 14th D 33
OH 11th D 33
MI 13th D 32
MA 8th D 31
CA 31st D 30
MD 4th D 30
WA 7th D 30
FL 23rd D 29
LA 2nd D 28
NY 7th D 28
NY 8th D 28
CA 37th D 27
MO 1st D 26
NY 14th D 26
TX 30th D 26
UT 1st R 26
AL 6th R 25
CA 28th D 25
MD 7th D 25
TX 11th R 25
TX 19th R 25
NE 3rd R 24
CA 34th D 23
NJ 13th D 23
TX 18th D 23
CA 12th D 22
CA 13th D 22
GA 4th D 22
PA 14th D 22
UT 3rd R 22
CA 6th D 21
FL 19th D 21
MN 5th D 21
NY 17th D 21
TX 9th R 21
CA 30th D 20
CA 38th D 20
IL 9th D 20
IN 5th R 20
KS 1st R 20
MD 8th D 20
TX 8th R 20
WI 4th D 20
CA 7th D 19
FL 1st R 19
ID 1st R 19
ID 2nd R 19
WY AtLg R 19
CA 14th D 18
CO 1st D 18
FL 20th D 18
IL 5th D 18
LA 1st R 18
MA 7th D 18
NY 5th D 18
OK 3rd R 18
OR 3rd D 18
TN 9th D 18
TX 13th R 18
TX 17th R 18
VA 3rd D 18
AL 7th D 17
CA 17th D 17
CA 32nd D 17
IN 4th R 17
MA 4th D 17
NC 6th R 17
TX 1st R 17
TX 3rd R 17
TX 4th R 17
UT 2nd R 17
AL 4th R 16
CA 16th D 16
CA 22nd R 16
CO 5th R 16
FL 3rd D 16
FL 4th R 16
IN 3rd R 16
MS 4th R 16
RI 1st D 16
TX 5th R 16
TX 7th R 16
MA 1st D 15
MA 9th D 15
NC 10th R 15
NC 3rd R 15
NC 5th R 15
NY 28th D 15
PA 9th R 15
SC 4th R 15
TX 22nd R 15
TX 24th R 15
TX 31st R 15
TX 6th R 15
AK AtLg R 14
AZ 4th D 14
CA 15th D 14
CA 5th D 14
CT 1st D 14
MO 7th R 14
NJ 1st D 14
NY 9th D 14
OH 17th D 14
OH 4th R 14
SC 3rd R 14
TN 1st R 14
TX 12th R 14
TX 14th R 14
VA 8th D 14
AL 2nd R 13
CA 21st D 13
CA 27th D 13
CA 2nd R 13
CA 39th D 13
CA 43rd D 13
IL 4th D 13
KY 2nd R 13
MD 6th R 13
MI 12th D 13
MI 15th D 13
MN 4th D 13
MS 3rd R 13
ND AtLg R 13
NJ 9th D 13
OH 2nd R 13
OK 1st R 13
OK 4th R 13
RI 2nd D 13
TX 10th R 13
WA 4th R 13
WI 2nd D 13
AL 1st R 12
AZ 6th R 12
CA 29th D 12
CA 53rd D 12
CT 3rd D 12
KS 4th R 12
KY 4th R 12
MI 5th D 12
MO 5th D 12
NC 9th R 12
NJ 6th D 12
NJ 8th D 12
OH 8th R 12
OK 5th R 12
PA 19th R 12
TN 7th R 12
TX 26th R 12
TX 2nd R 12
WI 5th R 12
AR 3rd R 11
CA 36th D 11
CA 4th R 11
FL 11th D 11
IN 6th R 11
MA 2nd D 11
MA 3rd D 11
MO 4th R 11
MO 8th R 11
MT AtLg R 11
NC 12th D 11
NE 1st R 11
OR 2nd R 11
PA 16th R 11
SC 6th D 11
TN 2nd R 11
TX 32nd R 11
VA 6th R 11
VA 7th R 11
AZ 7th D 10
CA 19th R 10
CA 1st D 10
CA 42nd R 10
CA 49th R 10
CO 6th R 10
FL 14th R 10
HI 2nd D 10
IL 3rd D 10
KY 1st R 10
LA 5th R 10
MA 6th D 10
MD 1st R 10
MS 1st R 10
MS 2nd D 10
NY 18th D 10
OH 5th R 10
PA 5th R 10
SC 1st R 10
SD AtLg R 10
AZ 2nd R 9
CA 10th D 9
CA 23rd D 9
CA 41st R 9
CA 52nd R 9
CO 4th R 9
IN 7th D 9
IN 8th R 9
MA 5th D 9
MD 5th D 9
MI 2nd R 9
MI 3rd R 9
MO 2nd R 9
NC 1st D 9
NE 2nd R 9
NV 1st D 9
NY 21st D 9
NY 4th D 9
OH 9th D 9
SC 2nd R 9
TX 16th D 9
VA 1st R 9
CA 40th R 8
CA 48th R 8
CO 2nd D 8
CT 2nd D 8
FL 6th R 8
GA 8th R 8
IA 5th R 8
IL 19th R 8
IN 1st D 8
KY 5th R 8
MA 10th D 8
MD 2nd D 8
MO 3rd D 8
NJ 12th D 8
NV 2nd R 8
PA 10th R 8
PA 13th D 8
TN 3rd R 8
TX 20th D 8
TX 29th D 8
VT AtLg D 8
CA 25th R 7
CA 3rd R 7
CA 51st D 7
DE AtLg D 7
HI 1st D 7
IA 2nd D 7
IN 9th R 7
KS 2nd R 7
KY 6th R 7
LA 4th R 7
LA 6th R 7
LA 7th R 7
MD 3rd D 7
MO 9th R 7
NC 11th R 7
NY 27th D 7
NY 2nd D 7
PA 17th R 7
VA 9th R 7
WA 1st D 7
WA 5th R 7
AL 5th R 6
AZ 3rd R 6
CA 44th R 6
CA 46th R 6
CO 3rd R 6
FL 21st R 6
IL 15th R 6
ME 1st D 6
MN 7th R 6
NC 4th D 6
NJ 11th R 6
NM 2nd R 6
NM 3rd D 6
NY 22nd D 6
OH 10th D 6
OH 13th D 6
OH 18th R 6
OH 7th R 6
OR 1st D 6
SC 5th R 6
TN 5th D 6
VA 2nd R 6
VA 5th R 6
WA 6th D 6
WA 9th D 6
WV 1st R 6
CA 20th D 5
CA 24th R 5
CA 47th D 5
CA 50th R 5
CT 4th D 5
FL 12th R 5
FL 5th R 5
IA 1st D 5
IL 12th D 5
IL 13th R 5
IL 14th R 5
IL 17th D 5
IL 18th R 5
IL 8th R 5
LA 3rd R 5
MN 6th R 5
MO 6th R 5
NY 29th R 5
OK 2nd R 5
PA 11th D 5
PA 12th D 5
VA 10th R 5
VA 4th R 5
WI 6th R 5
WV 2nd R 5
AL 3rd R 4
AZ 5th R 4
CA 26th R 4
CT 5th D 4
FL 13th R 4
FL 15th R 4
FL 18th R 4
FL 22nd D 4
FL 25th R 4
FL 9th R 4
IL 10th D 4
IL 16th R 4
IN 2nd R 4
KS 3rd R 4
ME 2nd D 4
MI 10th R 4
MN 8th D 4
NJ 2nd D 4
NJ 5th R 4
OH 16th R 4
PA 7th D 4
TN 6th R 4
TX 23rd R 4
WI 8th R 4
CA 11th R 3
CA 18th D 3
CA 45th R 3
FL 24th R 3
FL 7th R 3
FL 8th R 3
IL 6th R 3
MI 4th R 3
MN 2nd R 3
NC 2nd R 3
NC 7th R 3
NC 8th R 3
NH 2nd D 3
NJ 3rd D 3
NY 1st D 3
NY 20th R 3
NY 25th D 3
NY 26th R 3
OH 3rd R 3
PA 4th R 3
PA 8th D 3
TN 4th R 3
TX 15th D 3
WA 2nd D 3
WI 3rd D 3
AZ 1st R 2
CO 7th D 2
FL 16th R 2
FL 2nd R 2
GA 12th D 2
GA 2nd D 2
KY 3rd D 2
MI 1st R 2
MI 6th R 2
MI 7th R 2
MI 8th R 2
NC 13th D 2
NM 1st D 2
NY 3rd D 2
OH 14th R 2
PA 15th D 2
PA 18th R 2
PA 3rd R 2
PA 6th D 2
WA 8th D 2
WI 1st R 2
WI 7th D 2
AR 1st D 1
AZ 8th R 1
FL 10th D 1
IA 3rd D 1
IL 11th R 1
MI 11th R 1
MN 1st R 1
MN 3rd R 1
NJ 4th R 1
NJ 7th R 1
NV 3rd D 1
NY 13th D 1
NY 19th R 1
NY 24th R 1
OH 12th R 1
OH 15th R 1
OH 1st R 1
OR 5th D 1
TX 25th D 1
TX 27th R 1
TX 28th R 1
VA 11th R 1
AR 2nd
AR 4th
GA 10th
GA 11th
GA 13th
GA 1st
GA 3rd
GA 5th
GA 6th
GA 7th
GA 9th
IA 4th
MI 9th
NH 1st
NY 23rd
OH 6th
OR 4th
TN 8th
TX 21st
WA 3rd
WV 3rd

[jinny]

Belmont... on the San Francisco Bay, bluest of blue state politics.

Wikipedia says about the 14th Congressional district: California's 14th congressional district is located between San Francisco and San Jose. The district includes portions of San Mateo, Santa Clara and Santa Cruz counties, most notably containing Silicon Valley. It is one of 53 California Congressional Districts. Major cities include Redwood City, Mountain View, Sunnyvale, and Palo Alto. The current Representative for this district is Democrat Anna Eshoo. The district has a Cook Partisan Voting Index score of D +18, in the top 18% most biased in the country.

I just sorted that index and it's scary how politically parochial some districts are and more scary that nearly 10% of the most politically unbalanced districts are of one party:

St Dist +% NY 15th D 43 NY 16th D 43 NY 10th D 41 NY 11th D 40 PA 2nd D 39 CA 9th D 38 NY 6th D 38 CA 33rd D 36 CA 8th D 36 PA 1st D 36 FL 17th D 35 IL 1st D 35 IL 2nd D 35 IL 7th D 35 NJ 10th D 34 NY 12th D 34 CA 35th D 33 MI 14th D 33 OH 11th D 33 MI 13th D 32 MA 8th D 31 CA 31st D 30 MD 4th D 30 WA 7th D 30 FL 23rd D 29 LA 2nd D 28 NY 7th D 28 NY 8th D 28 CA 37th D 27 MO 1st D 26 NY 14th D 26 TX 30th D 26 UT 1st R 26 AL 6th R 25 CA 28th D 25 MD 7th D 25 TX 11th R 25 TX 19th R 25 NE 3rd R 24 CA 34th D 23 NJ 13th D 23 TX 18th D 23 CA 12th D 22 CA 13th D 22 GA 4th D 22 PA 14th D 22 UT 3rd R 22 CA 6th D 21 FL 19th D 21 MN 5th D 21 NY 17th D 21 TX 9th R 21 CA 30th D 20 CA 38th D 20 IL 9th D 20 IN 5th R 20 KS 1st R 20 MD 8th D 20 TX 8th R 20 WI 4th D 20 CA 7th D 19 FL 1st R 19 ID 1st R 19 ID 2nd R 19 WY AtLg R 19 CA 14th D 18 CO 1st D 18 FL 20th D 18 IL 5th D 18 LA 1st R 18 MA 7th D 18 NY 5th D 18 OK 3rd R 18 OR 3rd D 18 TN 9th D 18 TX 13th R 18 TX 17th R 18 VA 3rd D 18 AL 7th D 17 CA 17th D 17 CA 32nd D 17 IN 4th R 17 MA 4th D 17 NC 6th R 17 TX 1st R 17 TX 3rd R 17 TX 4th R 17 UT 2nd R 17 AL 4th R 16 CA 16th D 16 CA 22nd R 16 CO 5th R 16 FL 3rd D 16 FL 4th R 16 IN 3rd R 16 MS 4th R 16 RI 1st D 16 TX 5th R 16 TX 7th R 16 MA 1st D 15 MA 9th D 15 NC 10th R 15 NC 3rd R 15 NC 5th R 15 NY 28th D 15 PA 9th R 15 SC 4th R 15 TX 22nd R 15 TX 24th R 15 TX 31st R 15 TX 6th R 15 AK AtLg R 14 AZ 4th D 14 CA 15th D 14 CA 5th D 14 CT 1st D 14 MO 7th R 14 NJ 1st D 14 NY 9th D 14 OH 17th D 14 OH 4th R 14 SC 3rd R 14 TN 1st R 14 TX 12th R 14 TX 14th R 14 VA 8th D 14 AL 2nd R 13 CA 21st D 13 CA 27th D 13 CA 2nd R 13 CA 39th D 13 CA 43rd D 13 IL 4th D 13 KY 2nd R 13 MD 6th R 13 MI 12th D 13 MI 15th D 13 MN 4th D 13 MS 3rd R 13 ND AtLg R 13 NJ 9th D 13 OH 2nd R 13 OK 1st R 13 OK 4th R 13 RI 2nd D 13 TX 10th R 13 WA 4th R 13 WI 2nd D 13 AL 1st R 12 AZ 6th R 12 CA 29th D 12 CA 53rd D 12 CT 3rd D 12 KS 4th R 12 KY 4th R 12 MI 5th D 12 MO 5th D 12 NC 9th R 12 NJ 6th D 12 NJ 8th D 12 OH 8th R 12 OK 5th R 12 PA 19th R 12 TN 7th R 12 TX 26th R 12 TX 2nd R 12 WI 5th R 12 AR 3rd R 11 CA 36th D 11 CA 4th R 11 FL 11th D 11 IN 6th R 11 MA 2nd D 11 MA 3rd D 11 MO 4th R 11 MO 8th R 11 MT AtLg R 11 NC 12th D 11 NE 1st R 11 OR 2nd R 11 PA 16th R 11 SC 6th D 11 TN 2nd R 11 TX 32nd R 11 VA 6th R 11 VA 7th R 11 AZ 7th D 10 CA 19th R 10 CA 1st D 10 CA 42nd R 10 CA 49th R 10 CO 6th R 10 FL 14th R 10 HI 2nd D 10 IL 3rd D 10 KY 1st R 10 LA 5th R 10 MA 6th D 10 MD 1st R 10 MS 1st R 10 MS 2nd D 10 NY 18th D 10 OH 5th R 10 PA 5th R 10 SC 1st R 10 SD AtLg R 10 AZ 2nd R 9 CA 10th D 9 CA 23rd D 9 CA 41st R 9 CA 52nd R 9 CO 4th R 9 IN 7th D 9 IN 8th R 9 MA 5th D 9 MD 5th D 9 MI 2nd R 9 MI 3rd R 9 MO 2nd R 9 NC 1st D 9 NE 2nd R 9 NV 1st D 9 NY 21st D 9 NY 4th D 9 OH 9th D 9 SC 2nd R 9 TX 16th D 9 VA 1st R 9 CA 40th R 8 CA 48th R 8 CO 2nd D 8 CT 2nd D 8 FL 6th R 8 GA 8th R 8 IA 5th R 8 IL 19th R 8 IN 1st D 8 KY 5th R 8 MA 10th D 8 MD 2nd D 8 MO 3rd D 8 NJ 12th D 8 NV 2nd R 8 PA 10th R 8 PA 13th D 8 TN 3rd R 8 TX 20th D 8 TX 29th D 8 VT AtLg D 8 CA 25th R 7 CA 3rd R 7 CA 51st D 7 DE AtLg D 7 HI 1st D 7 IA 2nd D 7 IN 9th R 7 KS 2nd R 7 KY 6th R 7 LA 4th R 7 LA 6th R 7 LA 7th R 7 MD 3rd D 7 MO 9th R 7 NC 11th R 7 NY 27th D 7 NY 2nd D 7 PA 17th R 7 VA 9th R 7 WA 1st D 7 WA 5th R 7 AL 5th R 6 AZ 3rd R 6 CA 44th R 6 CA 46th R 6 CO 3rd R 6 FL 21st R 6 IL 15th R 6 ME 1st D 6 MN 7th R 6 NC 4th D 6 NJ 11th R 6 NM 2nd R 6 NM 3rd D 6 NY 22nd D 6 OH 10th D 6 OH 13th D 6 OH 18th R 6 OH 7th R 6 OR 1st D 6 SC 5th R 6 TN 5th D 6 VA 2nd R 6 VA 5th R 6 WA 6th D 6 WA 9th D 6 WV 1st R 6 CA 20th D 5 CA 24th R 5 CA 47th D 5 CA 50th R 5 CT 4th D 5 FL 12th R 5 FL 5th R 5 IA 1st D 5 IL 12th D 5 IL 13th R 5 IL 14th R 5 IL 17th D 5 IL 18th R 5 IL 8th R 5 LA 3rd R 5 MN 6th R 5 MO 6th R 5 NY 29th R 5 OK 2nd R 5 PA 11th D 5 PA 12th D 5 VA 10th R 5 VA 4th R 5 WI 6th R 5 WV 2nd R 5 AL 3rd R 4 AZ 5th R 4 CA 26th R 4 CT 5th D 4 FL 13th R 4 FL 15th R 4 FL 18th R 4 FL 22nd D 4 FL 25th R 4 FL 9th R 4 IL 10th D 4 IL 16th R 4 IN 2nd R 4 KS 3rd R 4 ME 2nd D 4 MI 10th R 4 MN 8th D 4 NJ 2nd D 4 NJ 5th R 4 OH 16th R 4 PA 7th D 4 TN 6th R 4 TX 23rd R 4 WI 8th R 4 CA 11th R 3 CA 18th D 3 CA 45th R 3 FL 24th R 3 FL 7th R 3 FL 8th R 3 IL 6th R 3 MI 4th R 3 MN 2nd R 3 NC 2nd R 3 NC 7th R 3 NC 8th R 3 NH 2nd D 3 NJ 3rd D 3 NY 1st D 3 NY 20th R 3 NY 25th D 3 NY 26th R 3 OH 3rd R 3 PA 4th R 3 PA 8th D 3 TN 4th R 3 TX 15th D 3 WA 2nd D 3 WI 3rd D 3 AZ 1st R 2 CO 7th D 2 FL 16th R 2 FL 2nd R 2 GA 12th D 2 GA 2nd D 2 KY 3rd D 2 MI 1st R 2 MI 6th R 2 MI 7th R 2 MI 8th R 2 NC 13th D 2 NM 1st D 2 NY 3rd D 2 OH 14th R 2 PA 15th D 2 PA 18th R 2 PA 3rd R 2 PA 6th D 2 WA 8th D 2 WI 1st R 2 WI 7th D 2 AR 1st D 1 AZ 8th R 1 FL 10th D 1 IA 3rd D 1 IL 11th R 1 MI 11th R 1 MN 1st R 1 MN 3rd R 1 NJ 4th R 1 NJ 7th R 1 NV 3rd D 1 NY 13th D 1 NY 19th R 1 NY 24th R 1 OH 12th R 1 OH 15th R 1 OH 1st R 1 OR 5th D 1 TX 25th D 1 TX 27th R 1 TX 28th R 1 VA 11th R 1 AR 2nd

AR 4th

GA 10th

GA 11th

GA 13th

GA 1st

GA 3rd

GA 5th

GA 6th

GA 7th

GA 9th

IA 4th

MI 9th

NH 1st

NY 23rd

OH 6th

OR 4th

TN 8th

TX 21st

WA 3rd

WV 3rd

woah, that reminds me of those Matrix screen savers.

[Bob]

What if a condo owner decides that their condos or apts are smoking allowed ? Also, if a legal substance can be made illegal what are we to make of illegal substances ? How does this differenciate pot smokers from cigar or cigarette smokers? Each being now illegal. One causes the munchies the other causes a need for a nicotine fix. Could a owner be sued to make his apartment complex a smoke free area if he chose to make it a smoking only apartment complex? In effect cigar and cigarette smoking becomes as illegal as pot smoking. Will drinking alcoholic beverages be made illegal next or what other law will be the "next step" in a neo-totalitarian law??

[mmblz]

This is tough...

Obviously if all the condo owners in a complex smoke, then no one will report smokers and the law won't be enforced.
Now, how about 19 smokers and 1 non-smoker who complains - this law is great for the 1 non-smoker, but sucks for all the smokers.

So my first reaction is that instead of banning smoking in all condos/apartments, they should pass a law making it easy for a condo association to choose to ban it by a simple majority.
I do firmly believe that any time a majority of units wants the building to be non-smoking, they should be able to make it so. As much as people say "this is MY condo, I should be able to do what I want", smoke does go through walls, vents, cracks, etc.

I live in a condo with 2 units, which makes it somewhat easier. If people in the other unit started smoking, I would be pissed and would expect to be able to get them to stop. Likewise, if I smoked inside (which I don't), and they had a problem with it, I would stop.

Beyond "let the majority decide", it gets tricky with people moving in and out. You might move in somewhere where no one smokes, and the 5 years later, everyone else has moved and the building is now full of smokers. Should you be stuck with the smoke because you're now in the minority? You've made a huge investment in your condo, and suddenly you have to either sell it and move, or deal with smoke. I guess this is a situation the law would protect against.

I guess I have a hard time liking the law since it's so black and white. But at the same time I think it recognizes that smoke can effect everyone else in the building, and perhaps, just like noise, people shouldn't have to put up with that.


Regardless of the law, I think that anyone who feels they have the absolute right to smoke in their home should by a HOUSE instead of a CONDO. And likewise, anyone who feels they have the right to not smell smoke in their home should by a house instead of a condo.

[mmblz]

What if a condo owner decides that their condos or apts are smoking allowed ? Also, if a legal substance can be made illegal what are we to make of illegal substances ? How does this differenciate pot smokers from cigar or cigarette smokers? Each being now illegal. One causes the munchies the other causes a need for a nicotine fix. Could a owner be sued to make his apartment complex a smoke free area if he chose to make it a smoking only apartment complex? In effect cigar and cigarette smoking becomes as illegal as pot smoking. Will drinking alcoholic beverages be made illegal next or what other law will be the "next step" in a neo-totalitarian law??

Yeah the apartment side of the law is totally wrong, IMO.
Any time you own the whole building it should be your choice whether to allow smoking. And as a tenant you don't have any right to smoke unless the landlord says you can.

[Dgar]

Insane....

I agree if challenged, I cant imagine this law holding up in court, But who has the $$$ to challenge govt.

How can we bombard those who passed this law with our opinions.

[Bax]

A condo is property that you own. How the hell can they tell people what to do on property that you have bought and paid for? Once again this is something that should be left up to management.

I belive that a Condo is considered co-habitation. Everyone has equal say in the policy of the property. So, you may "own it" but everyone else owns it too.

[Smoked]

I belive that a Condo is considered co-habitation. Everyone has equal say in the policy of the property. So, you may "own it" but everyone else owns it too.

If my fellow condo dwellers had a problem with it, that is one thing. I am just tired of the government making decisions for people. I lived with mommy and daddy till I was 18 and now I am a big boy.

[catfish]

I was thinking today about the cigar packages that we here on this site have sent to the troops. It seems to me that the only place left that an american can go to have a cigar is Iraq. That is sad, this country is going down hill real fast.

[Blueface]

Just came on in the news here in Florida.
If you reside in any property that is composed of multiple units, you must take it outside.
If you reside in a single unit/seld sustained home, you can still smoke in it.

That is total :BS

[LincolnSmoker]

What about Townhomes, they have cement walls that divide the units. Also they have their own ventilation systems. If a person in one unit is smoking, it does not go into the second unit.

[cman78]

Like I used to say when I was a teen. Prove it!!!! he he

Hey can we get a ban against farting in condos and apartments. I heard there are some real dangers to second hand methane. LOL.

[uncballzer]

Like I used to say when I was a teen. Prove it!!!! he he

Hey can we get a ban against farting in condos and apartments. I heard there are some real dangers to second hand methane. LOL.

nice
:r

[smokinpoke]

Chalk it up as one more reason for me not to live in California.

[jdbwolverines]

What about Townhomes, they have cement walls that divide the units. Also they have their own ventilation systems. If a person in one unit is smoking, it does not go into the second unit.

How much smoke actually travels between condos. I'm pretty sure that the only mechanical piping in condos that is shared is for fire protection. All the HVAC, domestic water, etc. is suppose to be for each individual unit. I can't imagine that much if any smoke is traveling through fire rated demising walls. Apartment are a different story however. I don't really do any work in the residential sector so I may be wrong about this.

[uncballzer]

My pipe smoke does go thru the vent into my neighbor's place. Good thing I only have one neighbor and no one else on the other side. She doesn't mind (at least she says she doesn't for the most part), so I don't worry too much about it. I try though to limit smoking in my place anyways, so if I do, it's usually lighting up a pipe at the monthly poker game.

[Thelonius]

Yeah. Why doesn't the ACLU challenge this one. It's taking away a civil liberty.


I'll bet a stick that they will get involved at some point.

"The ACLU does not oppose smoking bans in public buildings, in the workplace or in locations where non-smokers may be subjected to secondary smoke. We object only to bans on smoking, drinking, diet and hobbies in a person's own home. "

[stig]

The whole notion of how harmful second hand smoke is really debateble. There's plenty of information to show studies on secondhand smoke being harmful can be refuted. Sure, the smoke is annoying, and that is what they are attacking.

They've got the whole world to believe an assumption or false science as fact.

Very little of these zealots really care about our health or health at large. There's plenty of other hazardous activities the incurr a larger price to our society than smoking.

Smoke can be harmful and it is not a secret that cigars and cigarettes can cause cancer because of chemicals contained in the tobacco. Smoke is harmful, smoke that goes into the body is harmful. Why exactly is it that you would think that second hand smoke is not harmful? Whether it is coming straight from the sorce or exhaled by the smoker the stuff that makes it dangerous are still there.

[macjoe53]

I'll bet a stick that they will get involved at some point.

"The ACLU does not oppose smoking bans in public buildings, in the workplace or in locations where non-smokers may be subjected to secondary smoke. We object only to bans on smoking, drinking, diet and hobbies in a person's own home. "

Maybe if a gay minority transvestite atheist (no offense meant to anyone) cigar smoker gets a citation.

[Bax]

I was thinking today about the cigar packages that we here on this site have sent to the troops. It seems to me that the only place left that an american can go to have a cigar is Iraq. That is sad, this country is going down hill real fast.


We could probably get Cubans there too!

[Joey Link]

Hooray for Liberalism! :chk

[Sauer Grapes]

Just like loud music... if you are listening to music in your own home, I don't care what it is... but if I can hear it next door, you can bet I might have a problem with it... especially if it's late but even at other times it's a nuisance... I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to inflict some bodily harm to some punk kid that's thumping their car stereo way too loud at an intersection... why do some people feel that it is okay to impinge on others? it's clear that smoke bothers some people... and it is not my place to tell them that it's not THAT bad... even if they are not crazed tree hugging health nuts... if it bothers them, then it bothers them... and I for one am not into ruining peoples' day with my want for a cigar. Now if I can have that cigar the way I want without bothering others... then I think that is best.

laws like this wouldn't pass if our hobby/habit didn't bother others... but it does... but I'm pretty sure that it's not going to stop people from smoking in their homes/apartments/condos/whatever, legal or not.

Wrap your mind around this for a second. In your music example, neighbors of your single family home can still call police if they can hear the music inside their home, maybe even just inside their yard.

How long until this ban begins reaching into SFHs where one owns the building and the land? What if there is a breeze and your neighbor has their windows open. OMG, they're getting a small amount of second hand smoke and are going to die now because of their neighbor!

Mark my words. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but these laws will be governing all homes in 10 years. Next is going to be homes with kids under 18, and that's probably be in the next 3 years or so. (I'm not saying someone should smoke with kids in the house, they shouldn't, but it'll be outlawed soon and outlawing it is wrong as well. I was taught long ago two wrongs don't make a right).

[pistol]

More laws my pretties! Cackle, cackle, cackle...

[Simplified]

This isn't Russia is it!!!!:mad:

[Zarathustra19]

IMO the only person who can dictate whether or not I smoke in my own home is my mother (I live at home during vacations from school), and that is because she owns the house. My girlfriend can complain, but she knew I was a smoker when she signed on for the relationship. My mother...not so much, lol.

In any case, I find it hilarious that the government in this country is being far more liberal minded and paranoid about second hand smoke hazards than the governments of Europe, which is a far more liberal region than the US. Heck, in Germany, there's a cigarette vending machine on nearly every corner! :tu

[ResIpsa]

I guess I (as usual) have a different perspective on this.

Rather than piss and moan about the laws that are passed, people's time and energy would be better served on exercising your right to vote and seeing that the people you don't want in office, don't get in office.

These are your friends and neighbors doing this to you folks, not the big "boogie man government", which, of course, is really you and me.:)

Bitching, moaning and continuing to complain the laws that get passed after I let these people get voted into office in my community is like complaining that the horses ran away after I left the barn door open.

Once someone is in office you've lost whatever power you had over them for the next 2-4-6 years, whatever.:2

[smokeyscotch]

There is nothing good that can be said about this. Our government is getting far too much control over us as a people and our private lives. We as a people are giving them our lives and saying, "Here, tell me how to live and make me do it". Communism, plain and simple. we still have freedom of speech, freedom of expression. The pen is mightier than the sword. Write the ones that can be your voice, instead of waiting till it gets out of hand, and too late to do anything, let alone gripe about it. Do we want our children to know what it is like to live free and have choices? Or, have this party or that party tell them what to do, and to do it now.
We're doing it to ourselves folks. Now let's put on our rally caps and get somehing done.
I'm going outside to smoke.

[uncballzer]

I guess I (as usual) have a different perspective on this.

Rather than piss and moan about the laws that are passed, people's time and energy would be better served on exercising your right to vote and seeing that the people you don't want in office, don't get in office.

These are your friends and neighbors doing this to you folks, not the big "boogie man government", which, of course, is really you and me.:)

Bitching, moaning and continuing to complain the laws that get passed after I let these people get voted into office in my community is like complaining that the horses ran away after I left the barn door open.

Once someone is in office you've lost whatever power you had over them for the next 2-4-6 years, whatever.:2

Problem is the American public votes a$$holes into office and don't know any better. :2

[OpusXtasy]

Problem is the American public votes a$$holes into office and don't know any better. :2

Problem is if you have not noticed lately is more of the American public is getting to be a bunch of "In Favor Big Government" assholes.

OX

[MarkinCA]

It appears that the "Peoples Republic" gruel is leeching at a faster rate from San Francisco these days. Hope you don't have to start showing your 'papers' to travel the Bay area any time soon...:cb

[Alyks]

wicked lame!

[hotreds]

It appears that the "Peoples Republic" gruel is leeching at a faster rate from San Francisco these days. Hope you don't have to start showing your 'papers' to travel the Bay area any time soon...:cb

Who would want to travel there?! http://planetsmilies.net/shocked-smiley-9451.gif

It IS getting ridiculous, tho- in your own abode?! http://planetsmilies.net/angry-smiley-220.gif

[TonySmith]

If they try to arrest me for smoking in my own home, there's gonna be an altercation with the authorities I can assure you.

This law points back to my post yesterday that we are becoming a Totalitarian society in the US. This would never have been made law in about any Democratic society.

Our goverment was setup as a Republic, but we are becoming more of a Democracy. In a Republic, such as the Founding Fathers invisioned this would not have happened. This is one website that discusses the differences
http://lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/demrep.html

[MarkinCA]

Our goverment was setup as a Republic, but we are becoming more of a Democracy. In a Republic, such as the Founding Fathers invisioned this would not have happened. This is one website that discusses the differences
http://lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/demrep.html

Tony, excellent post! I've already bookmarked this website for future reference and believe every other Lowland Gorilla should too. Thanks again and Merry Christmas to you...:cb

[nozero]

Somebody rode to often on the...
http://nozero.org/images/lamerbus.jpg
What a ridiculous law...

[IslandRick]

This isn't Russia is it!!!!:mad:

No, Russians still get to smoke. This is Kalifornia

:cb

[mustang1]

I guess I (as usual) have a different perspective on this.

Rather than piss and moan about the laws that are passed, people's time and energy would be better served on exercising your right to vote and seeing that the people you don't want in office, don't get in office.

These are your friends and neighbors doing this to you folks, not the big "boogie man government", which, of course, is really you and me.:)

Bitching, moaning and continuing to complain the laws that get passed after I let these people get voted into office in my community is like complaining that the horses ran away after I left the barn door open.

Once someone is in office you've lost whatever power you had over them for the next 2-4-6 years, whatever.:2

Agreed. If you don't vote you have no right to bitch.

[CCCigar]

These are your friends and neighbors doing this to you folks, not the big "boogie man government", which, of course, is really you and me.

No offence, but none of my friends and neighbors are in the part of the government that would pass laws like this. I'm a working class Joe in a working class neighborhood. About as far up the ranks my neighbors go would be teachers and postal workers.

My opinion might be bordering on class envy, but is seems the people I associate with say, "live and let live." The poeple who think they are smarter than me and know what's best for me tend to live in the more affluent gated comunities on the other side of town.

I know that this doesn't directly speak to the topic at hand, but I feel I must mention it as I don't feel the government represents me whether I vote or not. Without checking I would be willing to bet this issue was not put up to a vote by the general public? And even if it was would it matter? I lived in another state where term limits were enacted by popular vote and the government overturned it without a second popular vote. By the way, it was a red state so don't even go there. That makes my vote worth :BS.

The only way these types of laws can overturned is if it can somehow be proven that it takes tax revenue out of the district.

Also, look at nevada's recent ban on smoking where children are permitted and where food is served. Small business owners and operators (small pubs and eateries) are losing 30% of their revenue.

http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/20071203/NEWS/112030143

Lastly, in California, isn't it also illegal to smoke in your car with children inside? Private property has no weight in this issue.

Sorry to be such a negative nelly. To offset with some positivity, I wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

[raisin]

I was thinking today about the cigar packages that we here on this site have sent to the troops. It seems to me that the only place left that an american can go to have a cigar is Iraq. That is sad, this country is going down hill real fast.

Hmmm... let's bomb Iran, maybe they'll let us smoke joints there...:w

[Dr_Trac]

christ that is one stupid stupid law. hey while we're at it, lets ban eating red meat in your own home cuz it's bad for you.

[Freecigar?]

That is stupid now I know why I moved out of CA. Pretty soon I am going ot have to get out of this country if they keep this up.:ss

[r-ice]

christ that is one stupid stupid law. hey while we're at it, lets ban eating red meat in your own home cuz it's bad for you.

heh you think thats far from coming? Already they have started to ban the BAD fats from fast food. (can't remember what fats they were that they banned)

[kugie]

that sux man
I got noth'en else except move to a better state.

[SR Mike]

This is as much fun as El Cajon passing a bill stating that a person is not allowed to smoke in the open if your smoke can loft into the personal bubble of another person, even if they are across the street and you are sitting on your own porch.

[SR Mike]

In the case of El Cajon, you can own your own property, but not smoke where it can be smelled by others (like on your porch and it drifts into the park nearby, which by the way is similar to what Kendrick saw at a fast food joint and sparked the idea to add more smoking restrictions). Any public domain, it is illegal to smoke, or have smoke loft into. Let us remember why these laws are passed:

"It's a health issue," Zech said. "It is not taking away rights."

Look at where you cannot smoke "Under the ordinance, smoking on a city sidewalk will be forbidden." Link (http://www.10news.com/news/13886963/detail.html)

"El Cajon's ordinance prohibits smoking anywhere people are likely to be, such as outdoor restaurants, festivals or even the common areas at an apartment or condominium complex. Instead, smokers would have to go to designated areas, which the city calls “smoking outposts.”

But to help people know where is legal and where is not "No signs alert people that smoking is banned in virtually all public places. Visitors may not even know the law – the strictest in the county – exists."

I still want to see proof that someone has died strictly from secondhand smoke. Even better, this is a self, policing policy, it is up to residents to tell smokers to stuff the butts.

"The nonsmokers will be telling the smokers, that's what's going to happen,” said Councilman Gary Kendrick, who pushed for the law as a way to protect people from secondhand smoke. “I see this as being 99 percent citizen-enforced."
Link (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20080314-9999-1m14smoke.html)

I wonder who will have the first broken nose?

Gary Kendrick, his sister died of lung cancer, but I found no info as too what the cause of her lung cancer was. Oh, the fine is upwards of $500.

Just some food for thought...

[BengalMan]

That actor Shia Labuff or however the heck you spell it recently got nabbed on this no public smoking issue. I think he was smoking on a sidewalk and somehow a bench warrent was issued for his arrest. Things are just getting ridiculous. I really wish someone would challenge things like this.

[Puffy69]

shoot..they just shot down smoking band here yet again..they got to accomplish that first..

[c2000]

Nothing surprises me anymore,,The anti-smoking group got the surgeon general to report that any second hand smoke is harmful and now no law is too silly to try and pass. The fact of the matter is there are a lot of things that any exposure to is harmful ,,veh exhaust for one but you do not hear anyone talking about that.. We all live in silly country that worries about all the small stuff then when something major comes along we wonder why it could have happened.. Life should be absolutely risk free..


Jerry in Minnesota.

[SR Mike]

I'm not familiar with El Cajon's particular laws, but I still doubt that smoking on your own privately owned property (for example your own house as opposed to an apartment or condo as stated above) is against any law that I am aware.

And even if such verbage exists in some law, I know of no instance where anyone was cited for such a violation. Again, I don't believe the laws have even attempted to reach into privately owned property to begin with, as such laws would certainly not stand up to even a low level challenge.

There is a clear distinction in my mind between individual rights in a shared community space, and the rights and freedoms I have on my own privately owned property. The day the latter is in serious question, is the day my ammunition stock increases tenfold.

This issue was discussed heavily on radios, news, papers, and such. No one has been cited yet, this law in El Cajon is now in the grace period, warnings before fines. If your porch faces a public domain and you are smoking, residents have the right to police your smoking activities. They can call about your smoking being smelled from the park or sidewalk. It is a law that is really not all that specific and there-in lies the problem. This is a law that sits on the wait-and-see aspect, all it takes is one person to be fined by a cop who is interpreting the law in such way. Then the law will be specified.

The inner walls of a condo is privately owned, an apartment is not. If one needs permission from the HOA to work on the outside of the condo, but not the inside, then that person should be allowed to smoke as much as they want inside, even if it is smelled outside, as long as they are not catching the place on fire.

[smokering10]

Why doesn't the ACLU challenge this one.

because the aclu is a far left group that is against america liberty than for it. its like asking the devil to come and defend you on the last judgement with God. they have shown time and time again that they will fight to take away a christmas tree from town hall but not the right of the individual.

[court_jester]

That's just stupid. That is encroaching on a man's house, which is his castle. Once they tell you they can't smoke in there, what else are they going to say you can't do there? (Television? What to watch? Intimacy? Alcohol? Pets?) Come to think of it, I'd like to see them outlaw a few of the gangs and other hoodlums before encroaching on my personal rights in my house. I don't live in California, but you're right, it's only a matter of time until it happens to the rest of us.

[hoax]

Once they tell you they can't smoke in there, what else are they going to say you can't do there? (Television? What to watch? Intimacy?

TMI

My last apartment our next door neighbors, a married couple, would go at it for hours. My wife and I would lie awake like "OMG they are still doing it". I'm not kidding, HOURS!!!

Another guy in the complex had a flaming gay d00d (who eventually got arrested for selling meth) living below him. He said every once in awhile he could hear him getting pounded. I didn't feel so bad after hearing that. :r

[kgraybill]

I would give up smoking in my property the same way I would give up my guns.

[jm0307]

I have just come across this thread and it makes disconcerting reading.

The nincompoops who passed such laws ought to have remembered that, the liberties which have been enshrined in the constitutions of just systems of democratic government do not only serve to protect the majority from the tyranny of the minority, but also to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

[The Pict]

A condo is property that you own. How the hell can they tell people what to do on property that you have bought and paid for? Once again this is something that should be left up to management.

Haven't applied for a building permit lately, have you?:r

[masonichistorian]

This is some stuff (not to use bad language). I cant believe that people are regulating what you can do in your own home. This sounds like some one is trying to make some friends in higher places and you can fight this and win.
Get together and get a petition going and take it to the city counsel, they have to hear you and if you got the right number of petitioners im sure that thy will act. Remember that they are going to want to get re-elected. When I get out of the Army im running for city counsel and there is no way that I would vote something like this into effect it infringes on peoples personal liberties. I can understand not smoking in some restaurants but in your own home is taking it to far

[mosesbotbol]

When I get out of the Army im running for city counsel and there is no way that I would vote something like this into effect it infringes on peoples personal liberties. I can understand not smoking in some restaurants but in your own home is taking it to far

As much as I agree with you, personal liberty died a long time ago. We live in a near totalitarian state and most people just go a long with status quo. Outside of the Middle East and a couple of rogue countries, we are one of the most conservative nations in the world.

The people who smell smoke in their apartment are saying their rights are being infringed on also; their liberty is being impeded by our smoke. Believe me, I long for a simpler time when all this was not a pressing matter. Smoking zealot juggernaut won't be stopped.

Smoking will be illegal in public nation-wide within a decade.