THe Mitchell Report

[Alpedhuez55]

It is supposed to ge released in a few hours, but names are already leaking out. It looks like the Rocket is going to be named:

ESPN: Clemens named in Mitchell report

The Mitchell Report, MLB's investigation into steroids in the game, will be released at 2 p.m. ET today. Former Sen. George Mitchell will hold a news conference then, followed by a 4:30 conference with Commissioner Bud Selig.

Many baseball experts believe that the report will largely contain the names and info of players such as Jason Grimsley who had previously been linked to illegal drug use. Others suggest that it could have a great impact and reveal names that had not previously been released.

We will have a ton of coverage later today, but some reports have already come out. ESPN is reporting that a former Yankee trainer who talked to Mitchell said he provided Roger Clemens with steroids.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/sportsscope/2007/12/espn-clemens-na.html


Must have been when he was on the Blue Jays and Yankees, because he was just Fat his last few years with the Sox :r

Though you have to wonder, if he is named, if it will keep him out of the hall. Or will baseball black ball people and take away awards and titles. I have a feeling the WWE Wellness Policy is going to look pretty good after this report is released.

THe way to beat doping is with Sporting Fraud Laws. There is financial gain involved. Bigger contracts and incentive clauses for one. If you get an extra million for winning the MVP but were second to say a Bonds or Giambi, they committed an act of fraud. Instead of a suspension for steroid use, how about a being brought up on Federal Charges.

[ComicBookFreak]

The Rocket doesn't surprise me. Pettitte is a little bit of a surprise to me tho. Seems like Jose Canseco wasn't lying.

I know this may piss some people off and it's not my intent as I have always liked him, but I wouldn't be surprised to see A-Rod's name come up. Like Bonds he has gotten alot bigger.

CBF

Edit: I just remembered telling NCRadioMan when Rocket came back this year that his forearms looked smaller than they have in the past. I guess with all the stuff with steroids Roger decided not to chance it this year and his forearms looked drastically smaller.

[adsantos13]

Pettite doesn't surprise me in the least. He and Clemens have been "training" partners for years.

[Alpedhuez55]

I know this may piss some people off and it's not my intent as I have always liked him, but I wouldn't be surprised to see A-Rod's name come up. Like Bonds he has gotten alot bigger.

Actually, I would not be suprised if most of the slugging Shortstops came up on the list. Nomar for sure, possibly Jeter, Tejada and Arod even though he plays 3rd now. It was a position that you never expected any offense from, then all of the sudden in the late 90s, they became power hitters?

I remember after his Rookie Year Nomar put on a good 15-20 pounds of muscle after the of season. Even the Boston Sports writers were calling him out for it.

[billybarue]

All the numbers will stay, there is going to be no way to re-write the statistics (including the records) over the last 10 years or so.

I doubt anyone implicated will make it into the HOF. Palmiero and McGuire don't have a chance from their Senate testimony. Most of the sportswriters (especially the HOF voters) have said they won't give them the votes.

I don't think the "Steroid Boys" should ever make it in, the game is tainted because of them and it was tainted when they were playing and they caused it. Same as Black Sox (Joe Jackson) never making it in. As opposed to say Pete Rose who I think should make it in - posthumously. His numbers while he was playing were 1st ballot HOF, but he tainted the game after he established those numbers when he was coaching. But his players stats are clean. So I think he should make it on those numbers, but after he is passed so that he never has the opportunity to enjoy the accolades. The Steroid Boys will never be able to claim their stats/numbers were clean. Amazing about Bonds is he had HOF numbers way back in mid to late 90's. If he never did anything subsequent to that he would have made it, but he couldn't resist the whirlwind and recognition surrounding McGuire/Sosa during their home run race. So he sold his soul for a few pieces of silver and fame - it's not like he is the first, or will be the last to do that.

I don't think A-Rod will be on it. I think he has a naturally larger frame and limbs than Bonds to put on the weight. Probably about the same height as McGuire, but he looks nothing like McGuire did in the late 90's - the guy had three sets of shoulders, I mean he was huge. So I think (hope) A-rod is clean.

[billybarue]

Actually, I would not be suprised if most of the slugging Shortstops came up on the list. Nomar for sure, possibly Jeter, Tejada and Arod even though he plays 3rd now. It was a position that you never expected any offense from, then all of the sudden in the late 90s, they became power hitters?



You might be right about some of them, but I disagree about not expecting offense from your shortstops. Typically you see your 2d baseman leading off and being the on-base guy, and yes SS's sometimes are in the back of the order.

But as far as no offense from shortstops, that idea started to change when a fielding gem like Ozzie Smith started putting up decent numbers (2500 hits over 19 years, 260 lifetime BA). And that trend was absolutely shattered, as you know, by Cal Ripken.

[DoctaJ]

Roger was always suspected...but in a way I didn't want to believe it because I grew up watching him as a Sox fan. Reality hits today though...

Now the main question that comes out of this: If sport's writers won't put Bonds into the HOF because of his steroid use, they have to do the same for Clemens, right?

[burninator]

You might be right about some of them, but I disagree about not expecting offense from your shortstops. Typically you see your 2d baseman leading off and being the on-base guy, and yes SS's sometimes are in the back of the order.

But as far as no offense from shortstops, that idea started to change when a fielding gem like Ozzie Smith started putting up decent numbers (2500 hits over 19 years, 260 lifetime BA). And that trend was absolutely shattered, as you know, by Cal Ripken.
A lot of shortstops were scrappy hitters. There are a lot of them in MLB history who put up good and great averages. However, until the mid-90's, it wasn't a power position...not like it often is now.

[billybarue]

A lot of shortstops were scrappy hitters. There are a lot of them in MLB history who put up good and great averages. However, until the mid-90's, it wasn't a power position...not like it often is now.


I agree with that in my post - it started to change and the trend was destroyed when Ripken came along. Extremely large for a shortstop and power at the plate. From that point on, he set a new prototype for shortstops and many teams looked for that type. No longer was a large 6 foot infielder destined only for third base or first (maybe catcher - but we can talk about that change of prototype in another thread!!).

Due to Ripken breaking the mold, guys like A-rod (large rangy shortstops) became sought after. Maybe that pushed guys like Garciaparra and Jeter to bulk up and start producing at the plate, we’ll see what the report says.

My point is, Ripken changed the prototype not steroids. Teams obviously saw value in that style of shortstop, and players likely jumped on the “juice” bandwagon to fit the Ripken prototype – but that is no different than any other position on the field.

From now on (and hopefully without steroids), large mobile shortstops will be sought out. Likely because of their size they will no longer be “scrappy” hitters, but dangerous ones. And if you are looking for that type, you are gonna see more power from that position. I will concede steroids probably added to it, but you can't say it is completely the result of steroids when you start seeing someone the natural size of A-Rod (6-3) at the plate. the old short quick short stops were scrappy because they didn't have the physical height and leverage to be anything but that. 6-3 without steroids can still generate a lot of power at the plate, and if that is what teams are seeking, than this IMO, is the #1 reason (not steroids) we are seeing power from that position.

[joed]

the whole idea that the steroid situation should impact the hall of fame is puzzling to me.

Baseball hadn't put any rules in place to say that they were prohibited. The management didn't take any action to verify suspected players. The team trainers didn't say anything seemed unusual or exeptional about the results of the training and conditioning. The fans didn't make a fuss about what was obvious to anyone with 2 eyes.

So, all in all - I don't think that there should be such a big issue.

Let me ask you - How do you feel about Lawrence Taylor and the football hall of fame - he played most of his games under the influence of cocaine and was an admitted heavy user in spite of NFL, national and international laws. Isn't that more serious than what the baseball players did with everyone's implied consent.

[billybarue]

the whole idea that the steroid situation should impact the hall of fame is puzzling to me.

Baseball hadn't put any rules in place to say that they were prohibited. The management didn't take any action to verify suspected players. The team trainers didn't say anything seemed unusual or exeptional about the results of the training and conditioning. The fans didn't make a fuss about what was obvious to anyone with 2 eyes.

So, all in all - I don't think that there should be such a big issue.

Let me ask you - How do you feel about Lawrence Taylor and the football hall of fame - he played most of his games under the influence of cocaine and was an admitted heavy user in spite of NFL, national and international laws. Isn't that more serious than what the baseball players did with everyone's implied consent.


The issue is not what they did, which I could care less about if it did not impact the sanctity of the game. Comparatively I won't draw a distinction between cocaine vs steroid use. In everyday society I suppose you can say cocaine use is worse. But in the case of MLB, performance enhancing steroids have altered the purity of the game and its statistics. You can't accurately compare the numbers of Aaron/Ruth/Maris with McGuire and Bonds. That is the problem, not the relative comparison of cocaine use being worse than Steroid use.

I could give a darn what these guys (or anyone for that matter) shoots, smokes, snorts, eats, drinks, or takes as an enema. I will caveat that, and say the law is the law and drugs are illegal and the book should be thrown at you if you harm anyone as a result of drug/alcohol use, or peddle to children. But the point here is, steroids altered our national game in a way cocaine use never could. These guys should be ascetic enough to concede the divineness of the game is far more important than their self-aggrandizement.

BillyBarue

PS, and yes I think LT was using Steroids too and deserves the same/similar condemnation at increasing his performance unnaturally and making the football HOF. But again, Baseball is our national pastime and I can't help but grant baseball more reverance in that regard (call it a personal flaw).

[Alpedhuez55]

Due to Ripken breaking the mold, guys like A-rod (large rangy shortstops) became sought after. Maybe that pushed guys like Garciaparra and Jeter to bulk up and start producing at the plate, we’ll see what the report says.

My point is, Ripken changed the prototype not steroids. Teams obviously saw value in that style of shortstop, and players likely jumped on the “juice” bandwagon to fit the Ripken prototype – but that is no different than any other position on the field.

But you had players like Nomar, Tejada and A-rod with modest HR numbers in the minors double or triple those HR numbers within a couple of years in the majors, there is a good chance they were on the juice. Yes size can make a difference, but when you see a big jump in power for any position, it often involves steroids.

[ComicBookFreak]

Some of the names in the report so far;

Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Miguel Tejada
Mark McGwire
Fernado Vina
Kevin Brown
Rondell White
Mo Vaughn
Kent Mercker
Matt Herges
Eric Gagne
Paul LoDuca
David Segui
Dennie Neagle
Glenallen Hill
Jason Grimsley
Ken Caminiti
Gary Sheffield
Barry Bonds
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Armando Rios
Rafael Palmeiro
Mike Lansing
Todd Pratt
David Justice
Greg Zaun
Chuck Knoblauch
Matt Franco
Hal Morris
Mark Carreon
Todd Hundley
Brian Roberts
Larry Bigbie
Lenny Dykstra
Marvin Bernard
Benito Santiago
Wally Joyner
Mike Stanton
Rick Ankiel
Gary Matthews Jr.
Paul Byrd
Sammy Sosa
Troy Glaus
Jose Guillen
Darren Holmes
John Rocker
Ismael Valdez
Matt Williams
David Bell........

And the list keeps going............................

Looks like most of MLB was on something. And these are just the one's we know about only 70 of 500 players were interviewed that they wanted to interview.

CBF

[billybarue]

But you had players like Nomar, Tejada and A-rod with modest HR numbers in the minors double or triple those HR numbers within a couple of years in the majors, there is a good chance they were on the juice. Yes size can make a difference, but when you see a big jump in power for any position, it often involves steroids.

I say size is the first thing, and steroids adds to it. If A-rod is on the list than I will retract and say steroids first than size (height) are what contributed to power from the Shortstop position over the last decade.

I am still hoping/thinking A-rod is clean. He just doesn't have the gargantuan abnormal characteristics that we see with "Big-head" Barry and shoulders that mimic the Italian Alps that McGwire had (and lost pretty damn fast when baseball ended for him).


Just saw the list to get this edit in. No Garciaparra or A-rod ---- so far.

[Alpedhuez55]

I am still hoping/thinking A-rod is clean. He just doesn't have the gargantuan abnormal characteristics that we see with "Big-head" Barry and shoulders that mimic the Italian Alps that McGwire had (and lost pretty damn fast when baseball ended for him).


Just saw the list to get this edit in. No Garciaparra or A-rod ---- so far.

The list will not get everyone. Nomar was on them for sure. You just cannot gain that body mass over one off season without them.

As for A-rod, he has had a change in body shape and definition, but not as dramatic as Bonds. I think bonds did the HGH whioch made his head shape change.

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/preps/_photos/2005-06-27-in-arod.jpg http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2004/writers/tom_verducci/09/01/arod.clutch/p1_arod_ap.jpg

[OB1 Stogie]

the whole idea that the steroid situation should impact the hall of fame is puzzling to me.

Baseball hadn't put any rules in place to say that they were prohibited. The management didn't take any action to verify suspected players. The team trainers didn't say anything seemed unusual or exeptional about the results of the training and conditioning. The fans didn't make a fuss about what was obvious to anyone with 2 eyes.

So, all in all - I don't think that there should be such a big issue.

Let me ask you - How do you feel about Lawrence Taylor and the football hall of fame - he played most of his games under the influence of cocaine and was an admitted heavy user in spite of NFL, national and international laws. Isn't that more serious than what the baseball players did with everyone's implied consent.

Couldn't agree more...all this has done is open up a box that MLB didn't want opened. The Bonds witch hunt has created a mess and now they have no idea what to do.

[burninator]

Lot of pitchers on that list...just sayin.

[ComicBookFreak]

Lot of pitchers on that list...just sayin.

Sure are. Pandora's Box has been opened. Let's see what else comes out.

I do wonder if this could cause enough friction between MLB and the Players Union to cause another strike.

CBF

[burninator]

Sure are. Pandora's Box has been opened. Let's see what else comes out.

I do wonder if this could cause enough friction between MLB and the Players Union to cause another strike.

CBF
Never understood the people who argued that a pitcher wouldn't use steroids because there was little potential benefit. We often forget that one of the primary benefits of roids is accelerated healing, something a pitcher would find especially useful. Emergence of the closer, anyone? ;)

[NCRadioMan]

The list isn't surprising to me except for Wally Joyner. I always thought he was one of the least athletic looking players, ever. :r

[taltos]

I am shocked that Nomar i not on the list. As a Boston fan I saw him grow into the Mighty Hulk and quite a few of his injuries were consistent with too much muscle mass for his frame. Another set of names that would not have surprised me would have been any starting catcher in the league for the injury healing factor. I did wonder if Varitek was on them as he is built like a rock and outside of the broken elbow, has had few injuries. Glad that he is not on the list though.

[ComicBookFreak]

Jose is implicating A-Rod in steroid use now and says many others were not named in the report. I personally believe what Jose is saying that more players used. If Jose is just shooting of his mouth and there is no truth to this, then why have none of the people he has said used sued him for slander?

It's funny to watch how people who were blasting Bonds for his use have suddenly grown silent when some of their teams players have been outed.

Jose Canseco: A-Rod got off hook

BY MARK FEINSAND
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

More than 80 players were named in one capacity or another in the Mitchell Report, but Jose Canseco was certain there would be at least one more name in the document: Alex Rodriguez.

Canseco, who was one of the players named by Sen. George Mitchell in the report, told the Fox Business Channel he was surprised not to see A-Rod's name in the report.

"All I can say is the Mitchell Report is incomplete," Canseco said. "I could not believe that (Rodriguez's) name was not in the report."

Efforts to reach Rodriguez on Thursday night were unsuccessful. He did appear on the "CBS Evening News with Katie Couric," where he said of the report: "These are guys that I play with. They're my teammates, friends, people that I respect, people that I play with every day. If anything comes of this, (I) would be extremely disappointed. I mean it would be a huge black eye on the game of baseball."

A-Rod wasn't the only player missing, according to Canseco, who tried to attend Mitchell's press conference at the Grand Hyatt on Thursday, only to be turned away by MLB officials since he was not a member of the media.

"It's laughable," Canseco said of the list, which included such stars as Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte, Barry Bonds and Miguel Tejada. "I heard the report, I saw the list of players and there are definitely a lot of players missing. I don't know what they accomplished or what they are trying to prove."

The rest of the article.....http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/12/14/2007-12-14_jose_canseco_arod_got_off_hook-3.html

Very interesting. Is A-Rod gonna take any action against Canseco for this or is he gonna try to lay low so no heat gets on him?

CBF

Edit: A question I have is with all the pitchers being implicated, why has Randy Johnson's name not come up yet? He got better in the later part of his career and just happened to be in both NY and AZ when the 'roids and HGH were at both clubs. I hope I am not the only one that thinks Randy may have used something. I was also surprised to see David Justice's name but no Ron Gant. Also, absent from the report were Brady Anderson and Albert Belle, which was also surpising to me.

[joed]

An interesting article I read talked about the integrity of the "evidence" that Mitchell had for his report. Interestingly enough - not a single bit would have ever been heard in a court room..

The article sort of said that without the heresay evidence of a convicted felon, Mitchell wouldn't have had anything at all.

Bud Selig was laughable

Mitchell's report should have put significant blame for the situation on the office of the commissioner and his first recommendation should have been to find an effective leader that is willing to serve something other than his own best interest.

[ComicBookFreak]

Bud Selig was laughable

Mitchell's report should have put significant blame for the situation on the office of the commissioner and his first recommendation should have been to find an effective leader that is willing to serve something other than his own best interest.

I think this is the most important thing here. Selig imo turned a blind eye to the use of performance enhancers. He is as much to blame for this as anyone. He didn't care that they were being used when baseball was struggling after the strike. Steroids may have saved baseball as crazy as that is to say.

Finding an effective leader who wasn't so self serving would have been a good thing for baseball and still would be. Selig should resign for allowing this to get so out of control on his watch, the whole time he was just worried about one thing...MONEY.

And I don't think any of the players records should be taken off the books. With so many in the league doing some type of drugs how could you seperate the users from the clean people. It will be interesting to see if this effects the health of players over the next 10-15 years. How many will suffer life threatening or shortening illnesses from the use?

CBF

[Alpedhuez55]

Very interesting. Is A-Rod gonna take any action against Canseco for this or is he gonna try to lay low so no heat gets on him?

CBF

My guess is that A-Rod lays low. He may make some public attacks, but he is not the most liked person in the game. And someone could rat him out. He has a lot of former teamates on that list. And if one of them is driven out of the game my the report, I am sure they will not hesitate to throw A-Rod under the bus.

Look at the 50 HR club. From 1903 to 1995 a player hit for 50 or more HR only 18 times in a single season. From 1977 to 1994 only Cecil Fielder did it in 1991. Since 1995 that has been done 23 times. I think anyone on that list since the 90s has got to be considered suspect.

[Addiction]

I don't really follow baseball but I'm pretty sure that ARod is clean. He has bulked up a touch but nowhere near say a Bonds, McGuire, Sosa level so I am quite a bit less suspicous of him.

[PadronMe]

My guess is that A-Rod lays low. He may make some public attacks, but he is not the most liked person in the game. And someone could rat him out. He has a lot of former teamates on that list. And if one of them is driven out of the game my the report, I am sure they will not hesitate to throw A-Rod under the bus.

Look at the 50 HR club. From 1903 to 1995 a player hit for 50 or more HR only 18 times in a single season. From 1977 to 1994 only Cecil Fielder did it in 1991. Since 1995 that has been done 23 times. I think anyone on that list since the 90s has got to be considered suspect.

While Arod could very well be on some sort of drug but the pictures you posted of Arod are from when he was 18-19 years old and late twenties. Most men are still growing through the mid twenties.

A few reasons HR numbers are up
1. Players are stronger. Not because of steroids but because better understanding of nutrition and a much greater emphasis on training since the 80's.
2. The new ballparks are built for HR's. HR numbers up and so are ERA's.

Not denying the drugs at all but there is more to it.

The easy solution to this is to take a drug tax from the players and set up random Olympic or Tour De France type testing. Scrap the joke of a policy they've got now.

And lastly, Bud has got to go.

[etw926]

While Arod could very well be on some sort of drug but the pictures you posted of Arod are from when he was 18-19 years old and late twenties. Most men are still growing through the mid twenties.

A few reasons HR numbers are up
1. Players are stronger. Not because of steroids but because better understanding of nutrition and a much greater emphasis on training since the 80's.
2. The new ballparks are built for HR's. HR numbers up and so are ERA's.

Not denying the drugs at all but there is more to it.

The easy solution to this is to take a drug tax from the players and set up random Olympic or Tour De France type testing. Scrap the joke of a policy they've got now.

And lastly, Bud has got to go.

A-Rod's numbers have been consistent from his rookie year on. There is no reason to suspect that he is using anything.

[Alpedhuez55]

A few reasons HR numbers are up
1. Players are stronger. Not because of steroids but because better understanding of nutrition and a much greater emphasis on training since the 80's.
2. The new ballparks are built for HR's. HR numbers up and so are ERA's.


There are other contributing factors too. The season is longer, Expansion has spread the talent pool, they also lowered the mound since the 60s. But those numbers are just too dramatic.

If it is nutrician & training, why haven't wee seen the same dramatic leaps in records in other sports? Why is there is no 8 second hundred meter dash or sub 2 hour marathon? Because Track and Field has a testing program.

Most of the recent entries in the 50+ club, are on the Mitchell Report list. And I think just about all the players who are not are suspect. It has everything to do with Steroids. The 85 named is just the tip of the iceberg.

[PadronMe]

Because Track and Field has a testing program.


That's worked out well for them.:D


It has everything to do with Steroids.

No it doesn't

[Alpedhuez55]

A-Rod's numbers have been consistent from his rookie year on. There is no reason to suspect that he is using anything.

Or maybe he could have been using something since his rookie year, or even High School. I played High School football with Sterroid users in the early 80s. A-Rod may be the greatest natural power hitter since Babe Ruth, even though he came into the majors as a skinny teen, or he took something to help him get stronger.

He is in his prime now. He could break hank Aaron's record by the time he is 37. If he extends his career as a DH to say 43-45, you cannot rule out 1000 home runs. I just do not buy one clean player being that much better than every other player in the game in the steroid age.

But it appears, whatever he may be taking, he stops taking it in October :chk

[PadronMe]

or he took something to help him get stronger.
:chk

You keep dismissing the fact that a person can get bigger and stronger without steroids or hgh or igf. I did.

225 Lbs. @ 6' 3" isn't huge by any means.

[Alpedhuez55]

You keep dismissing the fact that a person can get bigger and stronger without steroids or hgh or igf. I did.

225 Lbs. @ 6' 3" isn't huge by any means.

And not everyone on steroids looks like the Incredible Hulk.

I just think there is about a 60-40 chance that he is dirty. And I will not be shocked if a story breaks about him.

[yamaha6000]

I hope everyone who wants Bonds' record not to count also feels that way about Clemens and everyone else...I personally think his record should count, people, this is a sport, there is no reason the federal government should be getting into this. Is an actress "cheating" if she gets boob implants? This report is the best thing that could happen to Bonds.

[carbonbased_al]

And not everyone on steroids looks like the Incredible Hulk.

I just think there is about a 60-40 chance that he is dirty. And I will not be shocked if a story breaks about him.

Eh, seeing as how A-Rod is the biggest name in the sport, you'd figure he'd be the first one on the list in this witch hunt. I actually think he's clean.

[Alpedhuez55]

I hope everyone who wants Bonds' record not to count also feels that way about Clemens and everyone else...I personally think his record should count, people, this is a sport, there is no reason the federal government should be getting into this. Is an actress "cheating" if she gets boob implants? This report is the best thing that could happen to Bonds.

Uhm, first off...Boob implants are not illegal.

I do not see MLB going back and taking any of Clemens' or Bonds' awards back. I think a lot of the players on the list may have trouble when it comes to hall of fame balloting. It does not look like Baseball is willing to suspend people at this point.

And I would not have any problem MLB wiping out any records whether it be by Bonds or Clemens. Or barring them from the HOF. But it probably will not happen, because every year, HOF balloting would become constant reminder of the Sterroid era with news stories.

[krash]

I'm going to take heat for this, but as a sports watcher, I don't care about the Mitchell report. Allegations about steroid use, HGH, blood boosting and assorted other "supplements" have been plaguing all sports for years. None of these players (Except for Bonds lying) are being charged with a crime. Baseball ignored the problem for years until the Feds decided someone needed to clean up baseball. Can't keep meth and coke off the streets, but by God we'll take away steroids from athletes. I don't remember who posted it, but I found it related to how I feel about this. "These athletes are paid to entertain us." Not be role models. I don't condone the use of illegal drugs or steroids at all. Why did names need to be released with the report at all? So we would read it? We see Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte and so on, but what about the smaller names listed. No one is mentioning these. The top players are taking the heat. Did steroids not help them enough?

Sorry. I just can't make myself care if a multi-million dollar athlete who plays in a multi-billion dollar sport was listed in this report. I don't know why they took it or for how long. But the releasing of this report, to me, is just another remarkably timed piece of sensationalist journalism. :2

[Alpedhuez55]

Eh, seeing as how A-Rod is the biggest name in the sport, you'd figure he'd be the first one on the list in this witch hunt. I actually think he's clean.

The list was based on people who's names were brought up in various investigations (like Balco, or Signature Pharmacy) or who may have test positive in the past. But the best dopers in the world know how to stay a step ahead of the tougher Olympic testing. They usually get caught when there is a new test that they do not know about. So Baseballs Drug Testing Policy should not be too difficult to get around.

And what about the timing his signing the new contract, the day before Mitchell Report being released to me is another sign he may be dirty. Get the contract done before the list comes out...That way if he is on it, the team cannot do anything about it. His value would have dropped considerably if he was on the list.

I know it is pure speculation, but I just feel something is up with him.

[Alpedhuez55]

We see Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte and so on, but what about the smaller names listed. No one is mentioning these. The top players are taking the heat. Did steroids not help them enough?

Actually, a lot of them never would have made it out of the Monors if not for Steroids. And for every roster spot an abuser takes on the bench, there is a kid sitting in Triple-A wondering if he will ever get his chance at the Show.

And I am sure shen they sign their next contract, it will be for less money, if teams are willing to even take a chance on them.

[PadronMe]

And not everyone on steroids looks like the Incredible Hulk.

And not everyone who's ever gained any muscle has been on something

I just think there is about a 60-40 chance that he is dirty. And I will not be shocked if a story breaks about him.

I do know that Jose said he was on it and its looking more and more like his book wasn't so far fetched after all.

[Alpedhuez55]

I do know that Jose said he was on it and its looking more and more like his book wasn't so far fetched after all.

Jose's book was pretty much legitimatized by those congressional hearings. Though he will always be considered Sleazy no matter what he does. I think that has something to do with sleeping with Madonna :ss

As for A-Rod, like I said, it is pure speculation on my part. And if he is linked to something, it would not shock me. But for the love of the game, I hope he is clean.

I am a big Cycling fan and the stuff that is going on with Baseball right now reminds me of a lot of what was going on in Cycling 10 years ago. Players doing whatever it takes to gain an edge, coaches and owners looking the other way. You thought it could not get worse after those congressional hearings, but a few years later, it does. Many of the biggest names in the sport are caught cheating. There are some estimates of as many as 40-50% of MLB players having used Performance Enhancing Drugs.

I really think we are headed to Sporting Fraud Laws in the US. Baseball obviously is not doing enough to clean itself up. Government almost stepped in a few years ago. I think they are going to soon unless Baseball and the Players' Union figure something out.

[floydp]

No matter what happens, this will be known as the roid era. Just like the time before Babe Ruth was the dead ball era. The comparison thats always made between Babe Ruth's time and say the 60's and into the 80's, now the roid era just doesn't hold water, you can't compare those eras to each other. Ballparks and conditioning are so vastly different you can't make those comparisons. This is just another era in sports.

[ttours]

I hope everyone who wants Bonds' record not to count also feels that way about Clemens and everyone else...I personally think his record should count, people, this is a sport, there is no reason the federal government should be getting into this. Is an actress "cheating" if she gets boob implants? This report is the best thing that could happen to Bonds.

Got to figure Marion Jones would agree :tu

tt:cb