View Full Version : B&M Etiquette
mustang1
12-13-2007, 11:16 PM
Not to jack Tyrel's post about locker etiquette but:
I go to three b&ms around my area. One has all the humi displays behind the counter and you call the sticks you want and they get them for you.
The second just has a huge walk-in humi and you just grab what you want and take it to the counter.
The third (which I like the most as it has the best selection) has humis that line the walls with sliding glass doors on the front.
This third b&m is the one that I am concerned with. When I find a stick I'm interested in I slide the door open, grab one (gently) and examine it. Now on several occasions the owner has stood either right next to me or behind me. If I pick up a damaged one I'll put it back and select another. I don't fondle the merchandise but I will not buy a smoke with a damaged wrapper. If after two tries I don't find a suitable one I move to my next choice.
My question is this: Am I breaching some kind of b&m etiquette that I am unaware of by choosing my smokes myself. I get the impression that the owner doesn't want me to touch the product. They are all smiles and polite the whole time but the hanging over my shoulder just feels strange.
I spend decent $ there too, Opus,Pepin,Tats just to name a few. I buy boxes as well. Am I missing something? Sorry for the long post.
Maybe I'm misreading them.
Darrell
12-13-2007, 11:20 PM
I don't see anything wrong with what you're doing. If he has such a problem with it, then take your money elsewhere.
rx2010
12-13-2007, 11:24 PM
yeah, I always inspect first, even if it's just not pretty enough
awsmith4
12-13-2007, 11:30 PM
I won't pay for damaged goods, the customer is always right is what I was taught.
NCRadioMan
12-13-2007, 11:32 PM
Why don't you just ask them what thier policy is? :confused:
Ozone89
12-13-2007, 11:35 PM
I've seen a few things happen,regarding damaged sticks.
1. I've seen an owner discard damaged sticks before, as he inspects his own stock to make sure everything is in order.
2. I've seen owners give a discount on damaged sticks.
3. I've missed damaged sticks before when i took them to the counter. 9 times out of 10, the clerk will inspect the sticks to make sure I have a perfect stick to take with me. I've had clerks tell me to go pick another stick out, cause they didn't like the one they were selling me.
I've also seen places that don't do a thing about damaged sticks...they just sit in the box.
IMO..it's the responsibility of the owner. I don't know how any owner can justify selling damaged sticks to anyone at full price.
I also inspect my sticks, but also feel guilty, cause I have my fingers all over them. That's the quickest way to spread bacteria to another person. But If I have to pick one up, I pick it up as close to the foot as possible.
Silound
12-13-2007, 11:38 PM
At the B&M that I frequent, the owner or clerk inspects the sticks, and gives me the option of a new one, or a discount (usually a buck or two off, depending on price and severity of damage). And he always accepts returns from boxes that have damage within a few days.
Good business practices make for happy returning customers.
MithShrike
12-13-2007, 11:51 PM
I can't blame him. I'm sure he's had people steal. I wouldn't think too much of it.
Not to jack Tyrel's post about locker etiquette but:
I go to three b&ms around my area. One has all the humi displays behind the counter and you call the sticks you want and they get them for you.
The second just has a huge walk-in humi and you just grab what you want and take it to the counter.
The third (which I like the most as it has the best selection) has humis that line the walls with sliding glass doors on the front.
This third b&m is the one that I am concerned with. When I find a stick I'm interested in I slide the door open, grab one (gently) and examine it. Now on several occasions the owner has stood either right next to me or behind me. If I pick up a damaged one I'll put it back and select another. I don't fondle the merchandise but I will not buy a smoke with a damaged wrapper. If after two tries I don't find a suitable one I move to my next choice.
My question is this: Am I breaching some kind of b&m etiquette that I am unaware of by choosing my smokes myself. I get the impression that the owner doesn't want me to touch the product. They are all smiles and polite the whole time but the hanging over my shoulder just feels strange.
I spend decent $ there too, Opus,Pepin,Tats just to name a few. I buy boxes as well. Am I missing something? Sorry for the long post.
Maybe I'm misreading them.
I think this is more of a case where he/she is trying to keep the shop lifting to a minimum. Sad but true people steel all the time. A lot of stores have gone with cabinets instead of walk-ins because of this. Some I have went to recently that did have walk-ins had a "humidor attendant" to assist you with your selection as you shopped. It may be annoying but cigars are pretty high dollar items and easily stuck in a pocket. Most owners as they know you start to "trust you" and don’t do this. Some might even ask you to watch the place for a minute so they can run to the restroom. Hate to say but society has made it this way. Don’t think so hard of these owners, cigar shops are hard enough to keep a float much less when the cigars are walking out.
If I ever open a shop I have decided to do cabinets instead of a walk-in because of this. You would be surprised who would pocket a stick if they get the chance. I used to be a LEO about 12 years ago and then lost prevention consultant for a large drug store chain after that and have seen it all before.
mustang1
12-14-2007, 12:44 AM
I can't blame him. I'm sure he's had people steal. I wouldn't think too much of it.
Like I said I spend good dough there...based on this line of thinking should a b&m assume a client will steal regardless of buying history? That kind of managment can't be very good at forging customer trust.
Trust is a give and take thing...I trust them to be an honset supplier...why shouldn't they trust me to be an honest customer?
weetone
12-14-2007, 12:48 AM
You guys are lucky, customers here aren't even allowed to touch the sticks till after we've bought them.
BM etiquette?
um.... i close the door. my dad use to just sit down in the office and leave the door open, reading a newspaper, smoking a cig... then we'd walk down the hall, he'd be sitting there... stinking the place up.
when i have to make a BM, i at least close the door. gotta wash my hands afterward, don't need any barnyard smell. or any surprise chunks of corn when i bite my fingernails, y'know what i'm sayin... sure ya do.
sometimes i fold the TP, sometimes i crumple... just depends.
what i don't like are those funky TP holders in public bathrooms, you gotta dig underneath 'em to find the end of the paper...
what about those really tall toilets?? i bet Dustin has to take a running jump just to get up there.
or overseas, some airports have those spinning seats that wipe them off automatically... huh... nice.
Like I said I spend good dough there...based on this line of thinking should a b&m assume a client will steal regardless of buying history? That kind of managment can't be very good at forging customer trust.
Trust is a give and take thing...I trust them to be an honset supplier...why shouldn't they trust me to be an honest customer?
Unless you know them and they know you by first named bases and carry on long conversations about what’s going on in your life and theirs with family and friends and such then they don’t really "know you" that well. Hey even then retailers have to be careful. I have been in upper level management and seen people steal that were "Christians" and even family members steal from there own families in business.
Trust me I understand your feeling the way you do but it is a fact of life for retailers that watch their bottom line closely.
Why don't you just ask them what thier policy is? :confused:
I agree. Otherwise you're making a whole lot of assumptions. If you're a regular customer the guy should be straight up with you.
Opusfxd
12-14-2007, 01:05 AM
You guys are lucky, customers here aren't even allowed to touch the sticks till after we've bought them.
Got another source? I mean 'those sites' allow you to look but don't touch. Same thing basically.
weetone
12-14-2007, 01:10 AM
Another source..? I'm confused.
What I mean is that the Tobacco Act makes it so that you cannot touch the sticks before you buy (I think anyhow) and you cannot enter a humidor without an employee.
dantzig
12-14-2007, 01:12 AM
I feel bad fingering cigars that don't belong to me so I usually ask a salesperson to finger/inspect/select sticks for me when I see something that I like even if it's normal for customers to grab their own merchandise. Most of them will go as far as to inspect a whole box for the best couple of sticks if you ask.
sean373
12-14-2007, 03:42 AM
my B&M is in the mall with a small walk in and sliding glass cabinets in the rest of the store. they seem to have quite a few damaged sticks, but i attribute this to th fact that it is in the mall. they seem to get alot of people who know little about cigars and proper handleing. i just try and look for ones that are in good shape before i pick them up.
To you it may appear that they don't trust you -
To them they may be trying to provide good customer service by being close in case you have any questions or need assistance.
If they are not busy and this happens - maybe they are bored and just want some conversation.
If they are very busy and it happens - maybe you should change your appearance so as not to look like the Uni-Bomber or something - :ss
Ron
If you've purchased Opus Anejos, and boxes of cigars from this store, I imagine it's not a trust issue, maybe just more out of habit.
As far as choosing and inspecting your own cigar selection, seems normal to me. I try to allways inspect the foot for cracks, I look at the wrapper for any large veins, and even the wrapper color might effect my decision on which I choose. I dont mind if the B/M choose's a single out of a case for me me, but I've inspected the cigars they've chosen and if the foot is craked or I dont like the way it looks I'll ask for another, I'm picky about the condition of the cigars I buy.
daniyal
12-14-2007, 07:11 AM
Not to jack Tyrel's post about locker etiquette but:
I go to three b&ms around my area. One has all the humi displays behind the counter and you call the sticks you want and they get them for you.
The second just has a huge walk-in humi and you just grab what you want and take it to the counter.
The third (which I like the most as it has the best selection) has humis that line the walls with sliding glass doors on the front.
This third b&m is the one that I am concerned with. When I find a stick I'm interested in I slide the door open, grab one (gently) and examine it. Now on several occasions the owner has stood either right next to me or behind me. If I pick up a damaged one I'll put it back and select another. I don't fondle the merchandise but I will not buy a smoke with a damaged wrapper. If after two tries I don't find a suitable one I move to my next choice.
My question is this: Am I breaching some kind of b&m etiquette that I am unaware of by choosing my smokes myself. I get the impression that the owner doesn't want me to touch the product. They are all smiles and polite the whole time but the hanging over my shoulder just feels strange.
I spend decent $ there too, Opus,Pepin,Tats just to name a few. I buy boxes as well. Am I missing something? Sorry for the long post.
Maybe I'm misreading them.
Its mostly to discourage people from stealing cigars on display I wouldn't worry too much about it or it might just be the law in certain states I know you can't pump your gas in Oregon you have to wait for the attendant.. make good use of them ask them to fetch your sticks in case you can't find a undamaged wrapper of a stick you like tell them to look for it. If they damage the smokes while going through them its not your responsibility so why get your hands dirty?
Linder
12-14-2007, 08:40 AM
Sometimes I pick out my own sticks, sometimes I allow the person with me to collect my request.
Also, with them taking an active part in the selection process, it allows them to be more familiar with the stock and catch any issues sooner rather than later?
Shabalula
12-14-2007, 09:32 AM
I've seen people walk around pick up eight or ten sticks from different boxes. They pick one up, look at it a second or two, then put it back. Then they move to another box and repeat the process.
Personally, I don't pick up a cigar until I've made a decision as to what I want. The one I pick up is the one I intend to buy, unless there is something wrong with it. Then I'll put it back and pick another.
FriendlyFire
12-14-2007, 09:39 AM
I think you can explain to him why you are doing that, he might be trying to be there for you if you have questions. Some people like to have help on deciding, and it probly much easier for him to remeber the price if he sees where you are taking the sticks fron.
ZYA_LTR
12-14-2007, 10:39 AM
My local B&M has a walk-in, and the people at the store used to come in just to ask if i had questions, or needed help finding anything in particular. Now that i am becoming a regular, they bother me less, as they know that i am learning the lay of the land. And now they will come over and BS with me when i'm chilling in the lounge area, and have gone so far as to exchange a cigar that was having terrible draw issues. Overall, i think they are trying to provide good service, and also prevent shoplifting without annoying you at the same time. I also have noticed that the store keeps the expensives--Partagas 150/Anejo/Opus stuff right next to the window in he humi, where they can see it form the register. The Padron annies are still in the back corner, but the stock is dwindling on those very slowly..hehe....very slowly.
mosesbotbol
12-14-2007, 10:47 AM
I prefer to have the salesperson pick out the cigar; might as well get as much service as you can out of them. I'll inspect it at the register and if he picked out a lemon, I would point it out and probably not go back there again unless buying a whole box. I am paying what they are asking, so I expect to have a flawless cigar. You'd be pissed if someone at a fruit stand sold you a rotten apple, right?
Selling cigars, picking out good ones is all a part of what they do, and if they can't even pick a good one out of a box, why should I shop there? I would question their competence as a merchant.
ritan
12-14-2007, 11:08 AM
Part of the service, I would say. In Asia, the sales assistants stick to you like glue so you might as well involve them in the selection process and make them useful by picking out sticks from boxes you want. My B&M has some eye candy that follows you into the humidor with a tray, so I always make them reach for the boxes on the top shelf.
:ss:tu
SteveDMatt
12-14-2007, 11:10 AM
Personally, I don't pick up a cigar until I've made a decision as to what I want. The one I pick up is the one I intend to buy, unless there is something wrong with it. Then I'll put it back and pick another.
:tpd:
This is common courtesy and sense that some people just don't understand.
As far as thievery, my B&M has 2 cameras in the walk in. They also have a sign when you enter that you are being videotaped.
Another sign says something to the effect of, please only handle cigars you expect to purchase.
I am very happy with their policies being posted, but they are a little snobby. The more I get to know them, the less snobby they seem to be, but I really don't use them that often. The online market is more my speed.
SmokinJoe
12-14-2007, 11:24 AM
In our walk-in, customers pick their own cigars. I always walk in with them, mainly so I can be there if assistance or suggestions are needed. If not, I let them shop in peace. If I don't know them, I'll hang out for a while for security reasons, but I try not to "hover."
I also take a quick look at all the cigars that customers purchase. If I find one that's cracked, I usually just give it to the customer and get them a new one. I also inspect the sticks in the humi on a regular basis, so I can find the damaged ones before customers do. When that happens, they usually end up in MY humi!
Slow Triathlete
12-14-2007, 11:55 AM
I can't stand when sales people/clerks/owners hover over me. It drives me nuts. I usually just walk right out or ask them a question that they will then realize that I know what the hell I'm talking about. I had a situation like that a few weekends ago at a shop out of town. I walked into the humi and this guy followed me in. I went back out to the lobby and looked at pipes and this guy followed me. Well then I went back into the humi with this guy following me. Finally I turned around and asked him when they would be receiving their share of the Tatuaja Black Label cigars? He said that he wasn't aware of a black label and kind of got snotty about it. Then I replied, "Yeah, it's Pete Johnson's personal blend. It's kind of unique because it has a binder leaf as the wrapper. They are going to release it in limited quantaties and was wondering if you had gotten yours yet."
He then replied that he hadn't heard any of that and I stated that maybe I should be the one following customers and harassing them. With that, he left me alone to look in peace.
Smoked
12-14-2007, 12:04 PM
I get this every time that I go to a new B&M. The ones in town know me now and they know that I won't steal anything.
Spect
12-14-2007, 01:03 PM
In our walk-in, customers pick their own cigars. I always walk in with them, mainly so I can be there if assistance or suggestions are needed. If not, I let them shop in peace. If I don't know them, I'll hang out for a while for security reasons, but I try not to "hover."
I also take a quick look at all the cigars that customers purchase. If I find one that's cracked, I usually just give it to the customer and get them a new one. I also inspect the sticks in the humi on a regular basis, so I can find the damaged ones before customers do. When that happens, they usually end up in MY humi!
One of the perks at my local B&M is the damaged sticks get smoked by the guys working there. :tu
mustang1
12-14-2007, 01:22 PM
I agree. Otherwise you're making a whole lot of assumptions. If you're a regular customer the guy should be straight up with you.
I shall take this advice. I will let you all know the outcome. Thx.:ss
mustang1
12-14-2007, 01:23 PM
Why don't you just ask them what thier policy is? :confused:
This one too!:tu
smokeyscotch
12-14-2007, 04:14 PM
Inspection is part of my smoking ritual. It would be like making love without foreplay otherwise. :2
Linder
12-14-2007, 04:36 PM
It would be like making love without foreplay otherwise. :2
What's wrong with that? :r
CSmith
12-14-2007, 08:32 PM
Being a young guy, I get this a lot. I've gotten into a routine at one of my B&Ms where I'll just head in there and if someone follows me, I'll start talking to them either by name or in reference to one of the owners by name so that they "get" that I'm a repeat customer and not out to fleece them. A few of the workers already know me by name which, in all my newb-ness, I think is really stinkin' cool.
As far as handling, maybe it's because I'm kinda new to this whole thing, but I'm not too picky about the shape my cigars are in. I'll find one that I want to try, or go to an old favorite and get one. If it looks like it has a tiny crack around the foot or a messy cap that's starting to come off, I'll take it anyway. If it looks really bad, there's always someone by the counter or restocking and I'll just head up to them and casually bring it to their attention. Most of the guys there offer it to me at a discount, and if not or if I don't take it, it becomes "employee stock" - stuff they'll keep around for the employees to grab for a cheap one on the job.
smokinpoke
12-14-2007, 08:40 PM
The one I favor the manager hangs out with you in the humidor. Sometimes I just want a papoose cradle board to cary him around in. Yeah it's a little annoying I mean if I have spent over $500 (I know not an astronomical amount) in your establishment and you call me when you have something you think I might like then I think you can trust me in your humidor.
Oh well he always hooks me up with great deals so I need to stop bitchin.
daniel2001
12-14-2007, 08:51 PM
I buy most of my cigars online, but when I'm in London I always go into the LCdH there. The manager doesn't know me by name but remembers me and that I love Partagas. Sometimes theres a lovely young lady working in there, and she remembers me as well. They have a walk in humi with a lock on the door. Usually, whoever is working in there at the time will follow me into the humi, and if I know what I want, they will show me where it is, and sometimes I will ask for a suggestion up to a maximum price and then suggestions will be made.
Either I will first do a visual inspection of the box and then pick out which one I think looks nicest and pick it up for a full inspection, but I will only put it back if I don't think its in good shape. If the manager or other lass is making a suggestion then usually he or she will look at the cigars for me and find a good example for me. In thata shop though, its very rare to find a bad stick. Their resident roller rolled one for me but wasn't happy with the cap, so she rolled another for me and let me keep the other one.
Where I buy online, they are very good. I have only ever had one cigar from them that wasn't pretty much perfect, a Monte A. I shot them an email, got a reply within the hour and was told to stick it in the post and they would send me a replacement. I posted it on a Tuesday morning and had a new one on Thursday morning.
Mullet
12-14-2007, 09:19 PM
i've been to many B&Ms where I live where there are 18-24 year old "kids" walking around in the humi. They tend to pick up every stick, smell it (even if it's in cello), and put it back. It's almost like they're trying to decide the best tasting cheap beer or something. I have friends that buy crappy cigars and they pick up sticks, smell them, squeeze them, then smell them again and put the back just to "familiarize" themselves with the brand.
I would say in my area 90% of people in the shop are very novice smokers. They have NO idea what they're looking for. I suppose this is why advertising is so big in cigar marketing. There are older family members of mine who think Macs are the best cigars available, and they would only buy them if it were a special occasion.
The only real Etiquette in my opinion is:
1. always buy something from the shop. Not buying something from a cigar shop is almost like going into a liquor store and "browsing." These shops are open for 1 reason, to purchase tobacco/liquor.
2. Don't smell the cigars as you handle them. Smoking a cigar and having to think about someone else's nose being all over it prior to purchase is just unpleasant.
3. Don't act like a snob. I see some cigar "guru" type guys who act too pretentious while they're finding their sticks. Have some sense of urgency, regardless of how knowledgeable you are about cigars. Nobody likes a snob.
My 2 cents as a beginner. I'm clearly not the authority on the subject, but these are the things that I observe at my local smoke shop that seem awkwardly uncouth.
Budprince
12-14-2007, 09:45 PM
Inspection of your cigars before you buy is a must. Your gentle handling of the cigars is a great example that I wish more would follow. The owner of that particular B&M is probably accustomed to more rough handlers pawing at the cigars and feels the need to keep an eye on everyone. Let him tell you he's got a problem with your approach. yoiu are the well paying customer and desrve to choose the best he has to offer. I see no problem with your approach.
oceanelect4
12-14-2007, 10:58 PM
do people realize how many people touch the tobacco in making a cigar. i hate when people pick up the cigar,squeeze it, sniff it right up against their nose and then put it back. or ive seen them drop in on the floor and put i back and say nothing.
mustang1
05-12-2008, 06:28 PM
Just an update.
I have since asked the lady who I assume owns the b&m in question what her cigar selection policy was. To my surprise she said the way I was selecting them was fine. I thought this was great and went on my happy way. That was around December of last year. I hadn't had the chance to make it back there as I have been making most of my purchases on line.
So I go in there this past saturday. I was looking to purchase a humi as a last minute gift for a friend that is just getting into the hobby. I know I could have found one cheaper on the net but I didn't have the time and this particular b&m has a decent selection of humis.
I walk in and the desktops are right there by the door. The lady who I'm used to seeing isn't there. There is a middle aged woman sitting at one of the tables in the lounge area.
As soon as she sees me she comes right over and just stands there as I'm looking at the desktops. She says nothing, just stands right next to me. Now I assume this is because she doesn't know me from Adam and is just being cautious so I don't take it too seriously. So in an effort to break this awkward tension and ease any fears she might have had about me being a theif or something I ask her how much the one I had been looking at was. She told the price was on the inside. I look, it was, $100. I close it and look at another. As I walk around looking at them she follows me the entire time not saying a word unless I speak first. Then I notice some humis in a glass case on the wall. So I'm standing there looking at them and deciding which one I want to see when this woman says
"Oh all of those are $1000.00 dollars or more."
Now this shocked me and I must have showed it too because she mummbled something I didn't understand as my blood was just boiling at that point. I think she said "Just so you know" or something to that effect. I considered telling her off or just walking out and purchasing some place else. But I needed the humi for a gift that evening and I knew none of the other shops had a selection even nearly as big. So I bit my tongue and selected one of the $100.00 humis, paid and left.
Needless to say I will never patronize this b&m ever again.
Being leary of me because you don't know me is fine I guess but to presume what I can and can't afford, now that just pisses me off. I could have purchased every one in that case should I have chosen to do so.
I own my own business, I employ over twenty people, I make a product that is sold worldwide, I don't wear a suit, I don't always shave. I'm self employed, I make the rules, I don't have to do all that bullsh!t.
This bitch took one look at me and dismissed me as one of the unwashed, working poor.
So f#$% Cousin's Cigars in Woodmere Ohio. And oh yeah they have fuzzy cigars too. I spotted several moldy $27.00 Davidoffs that I'm sure would have been passed off as plume.