Palio Cutter...

[Poriggity]

Im sure this is a review thats not really needed, but I thought I would tell ya'll about my experience thus far. I bought this through the group buy that Drob executed, and Ive only cut 3 cigars with it thus far... I have to say, this cutter cuts 100 times better than my Xikar cuts. I LOVE this thing.. Cuts like a hot knife through butter!

Scott

[ColdCuts]

I just ordered one from Mark yesterday. I think I'm just gonna go wait by the mailbox. :po

I have one question about the Palio though. I've seen photos of them being used as a place to rest your cigar when they're lying flat on a surface. I've heard numerous reports that nothing cuts like a Palio, but I'm curious as to how well they work as a place to rest your cigar. Who's tried it?

[ToddziLLa]

LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

I too just got mine from the group buy and before this I was a CS Havana Cutter fanboy. Nothing like a Palio cut! I will still keep my Havana cutters around becuase of the price of them, but man, this one is just plain better!

[n2advnture]

I just ordered one from Mark yesterday. I think I'm just gonna go wait by the mailbox. :po
I have one question about the Palio though. I've seen photos of them being used as a place to rest your cigar when they're lying flat on a surface. I've heard numerous reports that nothing cuts like a Palio, but I'm curious as to how well they work as a place to rest your cigar. Who's tried it?

When I was racing motorcyles, I used to spend the evenings working on the bikes to get them ready for the next weekend. I used this feature ALL the time. It works great, IMHO. It's intended just to keep your smoke off the ground. I also find myself using it when I'm grilling as well.

Just don't forget where you put it down, if on the ground as you might step on your smoke!

Hope this helps
~Mark

[ColdCuts]

LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

I too just got mine from the group buy and before this I was a CS Havana Cutter fanboy. Nothing like a Palio cut! I will still keep my Havana cutters around becuase of the price of them, but man, this one is just plain better!
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e99/davidhudec/palio20ashtray.jpg

ToddziLLa, have you tried using your Palio like this? I'm wondering how well the Palio doubles as a cigar rest as advertised. TIA :)

[ToddziLLa]

ToddziLLa, have you tried using your Palio like this? I'm wondering how well the Palio doubles as a cigar rest as advertised. TIA :)
Yes I have, and it does double as a cigar holder.

[ColdCuts]

Awesome. Thanks fellas!

Mark, my check went out yesterday. :)

[CigarGal]

You know, if I had one of these I would definately use it as a cigar rest. I constantly have to put my cigar down to go get another beer:al

[cquon]

These things are all about quality - from the construction to the smoothness of action to the sharp as a razor blades. I have no doubt they will provide years of great service.

[Poriggity]

If you decide to buy one CigarGal, buy one from Mark over at Cigarmony.com Best prices and service one can imagine!
Scott

[ColdCuts]

If you decide to buy one CigarGal, buy one from Mark over at Cigarmony.com Best prices and service one can imagine!
Scott
:tpd:
Word.

[RPB67]

Love my Palio !

I cant wait for the new styles to come out !!!

When Mark ????

[Poriggity]

Yes.. if the new styles come out, Im gonna have to get one of those too!
Scott

[txmatt]

Could someone share info on the new styles please!?!?!?!

OpusEx hinted about this months ago and I haven't seen anything since.

[Poriggity]

Wish I knew more about em Matt, but Ive only heard rumors, here and on Dogwatch, but I gotta say, its probably gonna be good!
Scott

[PuffDaddy]

I had a Palio for a while and I kick myself in the A$$ for selling it. I just figured I have an Xi1, several Havana cutters and various punchs. What do I need with another cutter?? I think I will get another one, but I am going to wait and see what the new styles look like (and how much $)
I heard Carbon Fibre and Burled wood. Is this true Mark?

[Mikes]

I have seen and held working proto-type carbon and wood models and they were real cool. Yall are gonna drool when you see these bad boys.

long live Palio:w

[Poriggity]

Mike, Judging by your avatar, you're affiliated with Palio, is that correct to assume?
Scott

[pnoon]

I have seen and held working proto-type carbon and wood models and they were real cool. Yall are gonna drool when you see these bad boys.

long live Palio:w
:tpd:
Marc and Jack showed us the prototypes at SoCal 7 and they were REALLY nice. You guys are gonna love 'em.

[pnoon]

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e99/davidhudec/palio20ashtray.jpg

ToddziLLa, have you tried using your Palio like this? I'm wondering how well the Palio doubles as a cigar rest as advertised. TIA :)
It works like a charm.
Although contrary to the ad, if I have an ashtray handy, I'll use it but the Palio cutter is handy when an ashtray isn't convenient.
Just my :2

[Poriggity]

Well, if the prototypes are as cool as you say, Im gonna have to DEFINETLY pick one up.
Scott

[LasciviousXXX]

Nothing beats a Palio, they are hands down the best in the industry.

New models were beautiful to behold at the RTDA show, I'm going to buy like 3 of them when they hit shelves. Don't know when that will be but I'll be one of the first to purchase one when Mark (Cigarmony) has them stocked.


XXX

[Poriggity]

Yes sir.. In my couple of dealings with Mark, both with the humidipuck and some other things, I can't see buying accessories from anyone else.
Scott

[Kenpokrazi]

Yep, this cutter is a cut above the rest. I have cut probably 5 or so smokes since the group buy and I have never handled a cutter like this. It's beautiful and when I passed it around to me friends to try out they were all VERY jealous :D . Great cutter well worth the money.

[n2advnture]

...I heard Carbon Fibre and Burled wood. Is this true Mark?

Yep! Saw them at the Palio appreciation dinner at the RTDA and they are SWEET!

I can't wait to get one...shouldn't be too long now either!

~Mark

ps - thanks for the kind words guys, I really appreciate it!

[RGD]

I also was in on the groups buy (Thanks Doyle and Mark!)

So my thoughts on it.

After opening the package and laying it down in front of me I just sorta went " Hmmmmm - okay." Nothing real impressive at first. Have my XiKar x3 laying next to it - the XiKar with it's gun metal finish and rubber sides, the design and spring load - well the Palio looks a little lacking. I mean it's ummm - plastic.

Smoothness of operation. The XiKar of mine is just smooth as silk - the Palio is not. It does have plastic guide rails which to keep it lined up - a plus - and maybe it just needs use to keep it from sticking. Unlike most cutters of this design though - it does lock in place to keep it closed.

Ease of operation. The XiKar does not require fingers to be inserted - and I normally just lay it down on a table/desk - insert the smoke and it cuts a perfect end every time. Can't do this with the Palio - took the whole cap off on the volunteer cigar.

Sharpness of cutters. The XiKar is good - about the sharpest that I have ever owned. Just a slight pressure on the cutters with your finger will produce a cut. The Palio - Don't even try it! Simply touching the blades and you are cut - yes I have first finger proof on this - :D

Storage. On the XiKar - if you send in the card - they will send you a case. The Palio comes with a case.

Now for the most important part - the cut. All I can say is: Son of a #$^%#%#$%#!$% does this thing cut! As of this writing I have cut at least 10 or 12 smokes with it and every single one is just effortless and sharp. No smashing or crunching - just zip right through them. I can't even say that the XiKar was or is a close second -

So while the Palio may be lacking in the hi-tech looks - this little Palio out performs it in the most important aspect - the cut. Think cutting soft butter with a laser - and there ya go!

I see in this thread there are new model(s) coming out - I for one will be in-line for them - nothing but Palio from here on out for me!


Ron

[ToddziLLa]

I almost want to spend a few hours and cut every cigar I have just because it's so fun!

[Brother of the Leaf]

First, we would really like to thank the whole group of you who bought our product and from these comments are very happy with your decision. As, proud "parents" of a product you always want to see every single person like it in every way possible, but this is not reality. As proud "parents" we are constantly taking new information in and weighing it to see if we can make some change/adjustment, striving to reach the unattainable goal referenced above. We would like to address a few things in the post below relating to our product only:


I also was in on the groups buy (Thanks Doyle and Mark!)

So my thoughts on it.

After opening the package and laying it down in front of me I just sorta went " Hmmmmm - okay." Nothing real impressive at first. Have my XiKar x3 laying next to it - the XiKar with it's gun metal finish and rubber sides, the design and spring load - well the Palio looks a little lacking. I mean it's ummm - plastic. The Palió Cigar Cutter is NOT a standard ABS plastic, but a composite, which took a long time to develop and is proprietary. The material used allows the cutter to work the way it does, providing the shear cut mentioned.

Smoothness of operation. The XiKar of mine is just smooth as silk - the Palio is not. It does have plastic guide rails which to keep it lined up - a plus - and maybe it just needs use to keep it from sticking. (If it is "sticking" when you are initially trying to put it in the "open" position, the answer is yes, we have found that some do and they do ease up with use, but if it is sticking at any other time it needs to be replaced, which we are happy to do or if you just want to try another we can and are happy to do that too) Unlike most cutters of this design though - it does lock in place to keep it closed (one of the trade offs of the "stickiness" we believe you make reference to).

Ease of operation. The XiKar does not require fingers to be inserted - and I normally just lay it down on a table/desk - insert the smoke and it cuts a perfect end every time. Can't do this with the Palio - took the whole cap off on the volunteer cigar.


Sharpness of cutters. The XiKar is good - about the sharpest that I have ever owned. Just a slight pressure on the cutters with your finger will produce a cut. The Palio - Don't even try it! Simply touching the blades and you are cut - yes I have first finger proof on this - :D (We’d like to thank you for noticing ;) Don't think we haven't sliced open a few fingers of our own around here making sure the blades we use and ultimately the consumer gets are the very best they can be. Disclaimer: The function of the Palió Cigar Cutter is to prepare cigars for smoking; it is NOT intended to be used in any other manner. :))

Storage. On the XiKar - if you send in the card - they will send you a case. The Palio comes with a case.

Now for the most important part - the cut. All I can say is: Son of a #$^%#%#$%#!$% does this thing cut! (When the end of the day comes isn't this what it is all about?) As of this writing I have cut at least 10 or 12 smokes with it and every single one is just effortless and sharp. (and it WILL stay that way with proper cleaning. Maintenance section will be up on our website soon.) No smashing or crunching - just zip right through them. I can't even say that the XiKar was or is a close second -

So while the Palio may be lacking in the hi-tech looks - this little Palio out performs it in the most important aspect - the cut. Think cutting soft butter with a laser - and there ya go!

I see in this thread there are new model(s) coming out - I for one will be in-line for them - nothing but Palio from here on out for me!


Ron

Thank you Ron for your review and again a very big THANK YOU to all of you for your support, past, present and future.

Brother of the Leaf

[RGD]

. . . We would like to address a few things in the post below relating to our product only:
. . .
I mean it's ummm - plastic. The Palió Cigar Cutter is NOT a standard ABS plastic, but a composite, which took a long time to develop and is proprietary. The material used allows the cutter to work the way it does, providing the shear cut mentioned.

I should have been a little more clear on this. Actually I was on the phone to Dave (68TriShield) when the cutter arrived - and I did tell him that it was some type of plastic - a composite of some type.

. . .
and maybe it just needs use to keep it from sticking. (If it is "sticking" when you are initially trying to put it in the "open" position, the answer is yes, we have found that some do and they do ease up with use, but if it is sticking at any other time it needs to be replaced, which we are happy to do or if you just want to try another we can and are happy to do that too)


Are you feaking nuts? Like I would actually let this thing out of my sight - :D What I am talking about is when it's fully open, and you slide it, it sticks a tad. It is getting better - so I just need to up my smokes from 5 a day to maybe 10 and break it in faster - :D

. . .
Don't even try it! Simply touching the blades and you are cut - yes I have first finger proof on this - (We’d like to thank you for noticing Don't think we haven't sliced open a few fingers of our own around here making sure the blades we use and ultimately the consumer gets are the very best they can be. Disclaimer: The function of the Palió Cigar Cutter is to prepare cigars for smoking; it is NOT intended to be used in any other manner. )


Well - That's my job, I am the offical "taker apart" and do "stupid things" around this here house - ;) And again I was still on the phone with Dave when I performed this manuver - I don't know if he has stopped laughing yet -


Thank you Ron for your review and again a very big THANK YOU to all of you for your support, past, present and future.

Brother of the Leaf


Well you have a lifetime customer here!!!!!

Ron

[j6ppc]

As, proud "parents" of a product you always want to see every single person like it in every way possible, but this is not reality. As proud "parents" we are constantly taking new information in and weighing it to see if we can make some change/adjustment, striving to reach the unattainable goal referenced above.


Ease of operation. The XiKar does not require fingers to be inserted - and I normally just lay it down on a table/desk - insert the smoke and it cuts a perfect end every time. Can't do this with the Palio - took the whole cap off on the volunteer cigar.

This is my only real nit to pick. I think this is an artifact of the cigar holder feature and don't see how it could be rectified without going to an asymmetrical design that would also require new (surely expensive) tooling/molds. Anyway altering the way I cut cigars is an easy fix.

I'm looking forward to the new models.

Bests

[qwerty1500]

Ease of operation. The XiKar does not require fingers to be inserted - and I normally just lay it down on a table/desk - insert the smoke and it cuts a perfect end every time. Can't do this with the Palio - took the whole cap off on the volunteer cigar.

Ron

I was in on the group buy too ... thanks guys. I'm also a former Xikar fan. And, like Ron, I also tried to continue my normal practice of cutting a cigar by laying the Palio on the table ... same result as Ron. The Palio forced me to actually develop the skill of cutting a cigar ... I love it ... now I can cut a cigar like the big boys do.

And, this thing is SHARP ... no effort, crunch or pinch. Yep, it's like a hot knife through butter. You do have to be careful. Had a little piece of tobacco stuck to the edge of the blade. It didn't seem to want to let go by blowing on it. Took my finger to brush it away ... darn lucky I didn't cut myself the first time I tried that.

Absolutely love my new Palio. Can't wait to see the new models.

[okierock]

I was also in on the group buy and think the Palio is an unbelievable cutter. I was a Havana cutter fan (still the best single blade around) but this is a whole nother level of cutter.

Put me on the Palio fan club list.

[Mikes]

Mike, Judging by your avatar, you're affiliated with Palio, is that correct to assume?
Scott


Nope just friends of the owners :0) I show my support by sporting ther logo as my avatar, as well as by using my Palio every chance I can get :D Can't wait till the purrrty ones hit the street;)

Mikes

[Dr. Stogie Fresh]

The Palio is a great cutter. I have reviewed it on my Cigar Journal site (http://web.mac.com/dpdiaz/iWeb/Cigar_Journal/Accessories/529ADA97-86EB-4632-93E6-9F67344CCCDE.html). I use it on everything except for really fat cigars (54 ring and above). Though it will usually cut a 54 ring cigar since the cap is usually tapered, it won't fit around a 54 ring cigar, so if I need to trim the end off for some reason, I need to use a different cutter.

Overall a fine product, one that I use frequently.

Doc

[rockyr]

I just received my Palio cutter and Stinky Cigar Ashtray “combo” from Cigarmony last week. Only used them a couple of times but man are they both a big improvement over my previous ones. Thanks Palio for a great product! :2

[Poriggity]

Nice to hear there are a lot of people that like thier palio's! I love mine still, and Ive cut quite a few smokes with it.
Scot

[Bigwaved]

You know, if I had one of these I would definately use it as a cigar rest. I constantly have to put my cigar down to go get another beer:al


How about the Stinky stirrup?

[Poriggity]

Yeah.. the stinky ashtray works wonders for holding onto my cigar when Im going to get another drink.
Scott

[warden291]

Bought mine from Mark a few weeks back with the stinky combo....they are both great products thanks Mark!!!:D

[thinhouse]

I bought a Xikar and have not been to happy with it. I use my CS cutter the most. My next will be the Palio! Thanks for the info!

[Poriggity]

Go for it dude.. get a palio cutter, and buy it from Mark at Cigarmony.
Scott

[txmatt]

Thank you Ron for your review and again a very big THANK YOU to all of you for your support, past, present and future.

Brother of the Leaf

Alright - for some strange reason when I recommend a product people listen to me. Most of the time that isn't a good idea, however MANY people here have been happy they listed to me when I told them to get a Palio.

I have one of the "original" models.. I think the fact that you the "new" Palio company are still covering the old ones in the lifetime guaratee is amazing! I also like the fact the new ones are less expensive than the originals.

But what really P!sses me off is that all of these people have seen the new prototypes, and handled them even - AND I HAVEN'T. Post some pictures DAMNIT!!!

-Matt-

[ToddziLLa]

For those who are wondering...

Over the weekend I cut both a 54 RG cigar (Cohiba Sublime) and a 60 RG custom rolled just fine! :w

[Jason Love III]

But what really P!sses me off is that all of these people have seen the new prototypes, and handled them even - AND I HAVEN'T. Post some pictures DAMNIT!!!

The new ones look different? I bought one a few months ago that was assembled in '06. I can post a pic later on tonight unless someone can beat me to it? :)

[txmatt]

The new ones look different? I bought one a few months ago that was assembled in '06. I can post a pic later on tonight unless someone can beat me to it? :)

The new ones I am referring to Jason are the ones with Carbon Fiber or Wood handles that aren't available for purchase yet.

There isn't a noticable difference between the old and new composite handle models.

Thanks for offering though bud
-Matt-

[Jason Love III]

The new ones I am referring to Jason are the ones with Carbon Fiber or Wood handles that aren't available for purchase yet.


Ahhh....gotcha. ;)

[Blueface]

You guys are cruel!!!
You are mean!!!
That combined with "I can't control myself" = Cigarmony.com, Combo order of Palio and 15 count Cigar Caddy.
That was today's "I can't control myself" treat.
I can't wait to see what you mean people will lure me to tomorrow.

[RGD]

You guys are cruel!!!
You are mean!!!
That combined with "I can't control myself" = Cigarmony.com, Combo order of Palio and 15 count Cigar Caddy.
That was today's "I can't control myself" treat.
I can't wait to see what you mean people will lure me to tomorrow.


I can help cure you of the "I can't control myself" afflection. What you do is this - order whatever you want for the next month of two. Matter of fact - increase your spending two-fold. But instead of shipping to you - change it to my address. After a month or two of never getting anything - you will get pissed off enough to suddenly stop. Works like a champ - :D :D


Ron

[n2advnture]

You guys are cruel!!!
You are mean!!!
That combined with "I can't control myself" = Cigarmony.com, Combo order of Palio and 15 count Cigar Caddy.
That was today's "I can't control myself" treat.
I can't wait to see what you mean people will lure me to tomorrow.

:r Carlos,

Since you're on an impusle buy! :r

http://www.cigarmony.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=78&products_id=340

I'll even hand deliver it! :D

~Mark

ps - thanks again for the support bro, I greatly appreciate it!

[Poriggity]

:r Carlos,

Since you're on an impusle buy! :r

http://www.cigarmony.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=78&products_id=340

I'll even hand deliver it! :D

~Mark

ps - thanks again for the support bro, I greatly appreciate it!


Wow! Free shipping, hand delivery by the man himself.. Now even IM tempted....:hn

[Blueface]

:r Carlos,

Since you're on an impusle buy! :r

http://www.cigarmony.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=78&products_id=340

I'll even hand deliver it! :D

~Mark

ps - thanks again for the support bro, I greatly appreciate it!

Wow!
That is crazy.

[Blueface]

:r Carlos,

Since you're on an impusle buy! :r

http://www.cigarmony.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=78&products_id=340

I'll even hand deliver it! :D

~Mark

ps - thanks again for the support bro, I greatly appreciate it!

BTW,
Awesome speed in processing the order.
Shortly after placing, got an email advising me already shipped.
Can't wait.

[Ceedee]

Ya know, I never thought I would actually "treasure" a cigar cutter. That is, until I got mine from Cigarmony. Ever since it arrived in the mail, it has not left my pants pocket. It really makes the whole "ceremony" of lighting a cigar more of a pleasure. I really love this thing!

CD

[Wombat]

Originally Posted by Blueface
You guys are cruel!!!
You are mean!!!
That combined with "I can't control myself" = Cigarmony.com, Combo order of Palio and 15 count Cigar Caddy.
That was today's "I can't control myself" treat.
I can't wait to see what you mean people will lure me to tomorrow.

Well I could not wait, ordered one yesterday and I think Mark had it in a box to me in like half an hour! Great customer service.

[PitDog]

Love my Palio! :D

[smokie stover]

Since I got my Palio,my Xikar is gathering dust.
Ross

[Poriggity]

Agreed.. My Xikar is gathering dust, sitting in my truck.. I keep meaning to send it back to Xikar to get the spring fixed and get it sharpened, but its just not worth the postage since I have the palio that works bitchen.
Scott

[Old Sailor]

I ordered mine....:D can't wait!

[pnoon]

I ordered mine....:D can't wait!
You won't be disappointed. :)

[MrBill]

You won't be disappointed. :)

I ordered the Palio and Stinky combo from Cigarmony....the box came Monday....its now Wednesday and the weather stinks! Haven't had a chance to try it out yet.
I blame you guys for temping me to buy it!:mad: Everyone raves so much about it, I couldn't resist!! :w

[Old Sailor]

Got it today all I can say is fantastic........glad that wasn't my finger I cut.....Thanks Mark....:D

[justasmoke]

Im sure this is a review thats not really needed, but I thought I would tell ya'll about my experience thus far. I bought this through the group buy that Drob executed, and Ive only cut 3 cigars with it thus far... I have to say, this cutter cuts 100 times better than my Xikar cuts. I LOVE this thing.. Cuts like a hot knife through butter!

Scott

I'm afraid to ask. How much was it on the group buy ? I'm considering buying one.

[Poriggity]

That I cannot discuss. I will tell you that even at retail, the palio is well worth the $$.

Scott

[LasciviousXXX]

I'm afraid to ask. How much was it on the group buy ? I'm considering buying one.


Check out www.cigarmony.com for prices :D


Those guys rock, buy in complete confidence!

[MrBill]

I ordered the Palio and Stinky combo from Cigarmony....
I blame you guys for temping me to buy it!:mad: Everyone raves so much about it, I couldn't resist!! :w

Well I finally got a chance to make my first cut with the Palio. Impressed! A nice smooth, even cut. Now I know why everyone rants and raves about it!!
Thanks Mark!
(but I still blame you guys!) :)

[n2advnture]

Well I finally got a chance to make my first cut with the Palio. Impressed! A nice smooth, even cut. Now I know why everyone rants and raves about it!!
Thanks Mark!
(but I still blame you guys!) :)

:r Yeah, they're good at that :r

Thanks for kind words everyone!

~Mark

[txdyna65]

I finally broke down and ordered a Palio from Mark, man what a great cutter. Just like everyone said it would be......Thanks Mark :)

[daviddunn]

I just bought a XiKar Xi, before I joined CS. I had never heard of a Palio until I came here. Now I feel like I might have made a mistake with the XiKar. Can someone who owns / has owned both please give me the pros and cons of both? Thanks =)

[LasciviousXXX]

I just bought a XiKar Xi, before I joined CS. I had never heard of a Palio until I came here. Now I feel like I might have made a mistake with the XiKar. Can someone who owns / has owned both please give me the pros and cons of both? Thanks =)

Sure, I have owned 2 Xikar's. One burned up in the house fire I had in March so I guess you could call that a con :r

Xikar
Pro's: Nice design, comes in colors. Clean cut for the first however many cuts
Con's: Heavy, blade goes dull, no extended warranty, customer service is iffy and the obvious one - melts in high heat LOL

Palio
Pro's: Great design, surgical steel blades, lifetime warranty, RAZOR SHARP cut, ergonomic, Excellent Customer service, Owned and operated by BOTL's who care about the consumer and the Cigar Industry as a whole.
Con's: I'll let you know when I find some

Bottom line is that the Palio is the absolute best cutter out today. Its run by honest caring Brothers of the Leaf who participate on this board.

[jinny]

I just bought a XiKar Xi, before I joined CS. I had never heard of a Palio until I came here. Now I feel like I might have made a mistake with the XiKar. Can someone who owns / has owned both please give me the pros and cons of both? Thanks =)

I prefer the whole hand action of the Xikars... I've never been able to use Palio's confidently... the ones I tried cut well, but it felt awkward to me. maybe it's my fat fingers. maybe it's because it was an older version.

and Xikars have a lifetime warranty as well... I haven't needed to on mine, but I am told that returning them to Xikar for sharpening is not that difficult.

I wonder if the new owners of Palio will sharpen older Palios? that would be great for customer relations.

I haven't had any problems with my Xikars so far... there is a little play in the blades that worry me a little, but so far it cuts fine.

frankly, if you aren't having problems with the cutters you have now, I wouldn't stress over whether of not you chose the right cutter... even if it turns out that the palios are better suited for you, the difference is probably insignificant... I'm guessing your Xikars aren't exactly flatening or fraying your cigars...

if you can't get any sleep over it, and you can afford it, then just get some Palios, it seems like they run in the 30-40bux range... which, unless you got the newer plastic Xikars, is less expensive than the Xikars... and then you can have two to compare and post about here... you will also have another to keep somwhere else you might need them.

[carbonbased_al]

I prefer the whole hand action of the Xikars... I've never been able to use Palio's confidently... the ones I tried cut well, but it felt awkward to me. maybe it's my fat fingers. maybe it's because it was an older version.

.

Dude, it's a simple guillotine cutter. You'll have to explain that one a bit clearer.

I can't stand the xikar personally. I gave all mine away, I hate the way you have to hold it. Always feels like i'm gonna take a chunk of my hand out.

I love my Palio. Great cut, simple design. I always use it or those Havana cutters.

[fisherking]

I received my Palio today. I had many cutters in the past but this one is exceptional. Very sharp and it cuts flawless. I have to mention also about Mark from cigarmony.com . He is incredible, he shipped the same day to Turkey and I received it in 3 days. Thank you again Mark, I also loved chocolate cigars came with Palio

Tamer

[kheffelf]

I have owned both cutters, I have had the xikar for about a year now and i picked up the palio about a month ago. In my mind the palio is a step above the xikar. It has the best cut I have ever seen on a cigar. The xikar is good but the palio is definitely worth the price.

[daviddunn]

Thanks guys, I might have to give it a shot.

[jinny]

Dude, it's a simple guillotine cutter. You'll have to explain that one a bit clearer.

I can't stand the xikar personally. I gave all mine away, I hate the way you have to hold it. Always feels like i'm gonna take a chunk of my hand out.

I love my Palio. Great cut, simple design. I always use it or those Havana cutters.

maybe it's just me, I've never met anyone else that has had similar issues, but my... not sure what to call it... "I crush your head" muscles? well whatever you call the motion, as simple as it is, not comfortable with it... you would think that having used chopsticks all my life (I'm Asian) I'd have better two finger dexterity, but I don't... and that goes for any guillotine cutter... it feels wobbly to me... I have to admit tho, that they did a good job... so my only complaint is my perception.

I mentioned that the Xikars feel like theres some sort of play in the blades... it might be the spring loaded opening... but the whole hand hold is more comfortable for me... feels more like tools I've used... gardening shears, plyers, hole punches, crimpers, etc.

I readily admit that, I would probably get used to the guillotine style cutters if I used them more... but for now, I'm more comfortable with the Xikars and they do an fine job of cutting.

[Smoken'Gun]

Now I feel like I might have made a mistake with the XiKar.

I have always been in search of the "Holy Grail" of cutters, and have accumulated more of them than I care to admit, and do not find the Palio superior to the XiKar. In fact, I think the simple Havana cutter has a sharper blade, and makes a cleaner cut, than both of them. (Though the diameter of the opening can be limiting for large ring gauges).

As mentioned, the Xikar can be akward at first, but laying it on a flat surface may help, until you get use to it. I rarely use a cutter anymore, as I prefer a punch, or I simply score the cap with a cigar knife and peel it off. You did fine by the Xikar...But, if money isn't an issue, buy the Palio and compare for yourself, always nice to have options. You could also try your local shop for a comparison, they often have a variety of cutters on hand. You see, the slippery slope is not limited to cigars themselves; but applies equally to cutters, storage mediums, humidification devices, lighters, temperature/humidity gauges, etc....Enjoy the ride! :D

[OpusEx]

and Xikars have a lifetime warranty as well... (as does the Palio cigar cutter)I haven't needed to on mine, but I am told that returning them to Xikar for sharpening is not that difficult. (Palio offers an IN STORE return policy, so you don't have to send your Palio anywhere to have it replaced)

I wonder if the new owners of Palio will sharpen older Palios? that would be great for customer relations. (see above)

As for your "awkwardness" using the Palio cigar cutter; you may find that placing your middle finger in the cutter end away from you and your ring finger on the "finger rest" will give you the control your are seeking in being able to use the Palio cigar cutter successfully.


Although, I don't know much about these things ;)

[jinny]

Although, I don't know much about these things ;)

thanks for the feedback... I have tried the middle finger technique... still awkward for me... maybe worse.

I find that unless all my fingers are involved somehow, I get overly concered with the ones that have nothing to do... when I try to use with middle finger, i find that I extend the pinky and index and use the ring finger to help with leverage against the middle/"finger rest"... and my pinky doesn't move completely independently from my ring... so the movement is a little uncomfortable. :o


I only mentioned the Xikar lifetime warranty because an earlier post suggested "no extended warranty" as a "con" for the Xikars.

[LasciviousXXX]

I only mentioned the Xikar lifetime warranty because an earlier post suggested "no extended warranty" as a "con" for the Xikars.

I'm the one that listed the Con on the Xikar's. My example is this, while Xikar does offer a warranty.... try getting your replacement back in less than 10 months. At least with the Palio, I know I will be taken care of by a professional in the industry with the high level of comittment to the customer that I've come to expect from the company. And it will be handled quickly and efficiently.

I've had less than sub-par experiences with Xikar's Customer Relations Dept..... bleh.:rolleyes:

[jinny]

I'm the one that listed the Con on the Xikar's. My example is this, while Xikar does offer a warranty.... try getting your replacement back in less than 10 months. At least with the Palio, I know I will be taken care of by a professional in the industry with the high level of comittment to the customer that I've come to expect from the company. And it will be handled quickly and efficiently.

I've had less than sub-par experiences with Xikar's Customer Relations Dept..... bleh.:rolleyes:

I respect that, I haven't had to experience Xikar's customer service (or lack of)... and perhaps I am lucky to be avoiding it.

I certainly didn't want to come off as championing the virtues of Xikars... I merely wanted to point out that I had a preference for them.

I think the main point I wanted to convey is that if someone already had a cutter that they were satisfied with, switching becuase other people say one is better than another may not be something that I would feel comfortable recommending... unless they had the means to do so...

if I had a Palio and switched to a Xikar and didn't like it (or viceversa), I would be fairly upset, considering the amount of money these premium cutters are commanding... If I had the means to collect them, that would be another story...

but hey, I'm game for a comparison test... I'll put my money where my mouth is... :D

where's a good place online to get some new Palios? and by "good", I mean "cheap." :) I'll give 'em another shot... I could use another for my office anyways... so, I won't be to upset if my initial impressions are still accurate. :D

[LasciviousXXX]

I respect that, I haven't had to experience Xikar's customer service (or lack of)... and perhaps I am lucky to be avoiding it.

I certainly didn't want to come off as championing the virtues of Xikars... I merely wanted to point out that I had a preference for them.

I think the main point I wanted to convey is that if someone already had a cutter that they were satisfied with, switching becuase other people say one is better than another may not be something that I would feel comfortable recommending... unless they had the means to do so...

if I had a Palio and switched to a Xikar and didn't like it (or viceversa), I would be fairly upset, considering the amount of money these premium cutters are commanding... If I had the means to collect them, that would be another story...

but hey, I'm game for a comparison test... I'll put my money where my mouth is... :D

where's a good place online to get some new Palios? and by "good", I mean "cheap." :) I'll give 'em another shot... I could use another for my office anyways... so, I won't be to upset if my initial impressions are still accurate. :D


:D

No problem at all my friend. You're just expressing your thoughts and opinions and I'm doing the same. We've had different experiences but at least we're able to communicate them in a respectful manner. I appreciate that and am glad to have had this discussion with you. We need more people in the world like that with open minds and good conversations. Thanx for broadening my horizons as well.

That being said, www.cigarmony.com has great prices on Palio Cutters. In this way you will be supporting 2 business' run by Brothers of the Leaf that care about the cigar smoking community. Good for you!

I understand about the recommending thing. I guess my thoughts on it are if someone is coming to me (newbie or FOG alike) and saying "Man, I'm not happy with these cheapie little cutters I keep getting at the B&M. What's a higher end cutter that I can buy that will do the job?". My first reaction is to list to them the best cutter available performance wise, then to give alternatives based on affordability. Luckily for me I usually just sum up both in the Palio Cutter :D

[gorob23]

:D

We need more people in the world like that with open minds and good conversations. Thanx for broadening my horizons as well.

Palio:w

Rob:D

[jinny]

:D

No problem at all my friend. You're just expressing your thoughts and opinions and I'm doing the same. We've had different experiences but at least we're able to communicate them in a respectful manner. I appreciate that and am glad to have had this discussion with you. We need more people in the world like that with open minds and good conversations. Thanx for broadening my horizons as well.

That being said, www.cigarmony.com has great prices on Palio Cutters. In this way you will be supporting 2 business' run by Brothers of the Leaf that care about the cigar smoking community. Good for you!

I understand about the recommending thing. I guess my thoughts on it are if someone is coming to me (newbie or FOG alike) and saying "Man, I'm not happy with these cheapie little cutters I keep getting at the B&M. What's a higher end cutter that I can buy that will do the job?". My first reaction is to list to them the best cutter available performance wise, then to give alternatives based on affordability. Luckily for me I usually just sum up both in the Palio Cutter :D

done... thanks for the link, Palio is on its way. got a few other things too. :D

[Jechelman]

After graduating from cheap give away cutters I moved on to Davidoff, Xikar and Palio. I find the Palio to be the best of the bunch but not by a large margin. All are good. For smaller RG sticks the simple Havana Cutter gives me the best, cleanest cut.

[autoguy]

I'm the one that listed the Con on the Xikar's. My example is this, while Xikar does offer a warranty.... try getting your replacement back in less than 10 months. At least with the Palio, I know I will be taken care of by a professional in the industry with the high level of comittment to the customer that I've come to expect from the company. And it will be handled quickly and efficiently.

I've had less than sub-par experiences with Xikar's Customer Relations Dept..... bleh.:rolleyes:


from my one experiance of seing a fubared xikar that did not work and the coustomer service the person recieved was amazing

short version, lady comes in to the cigar store where i shop and says her boss wanted to get his xikar fixed, the sales people take one look at it try to get it to work and it does not, so they reach in the xikar case and hand her a brand new one and keep the non working one to be sent to xikar, now thats customer service :)

i have had my xikar xi2 for 3-4 years and have not had any trouble out of it at all

i dont want to argue i was just stating what i have seen with there customer service :)

[Poriggity]

I thought I would chime in, Ive got a Xikar cutter and the spring recently stopped working on it.. one quick email and they said to send it to em and they would fix it. Good customer service, I just have to get it to them.
All that being said, I haven't done it yet, because Ive got the palio, and I just love it.
Scott

[WNCsmoker]

my palio arrives tomorrow along with my first box!

[SmokingElvis]

I currently use Xikar Xi2 cutter (my first and only cutter) to cut my Cuban cigars. I was wondering about the Palio cutter, can you cut the cigar with it by putting Palio on a table, putting the cap of the cigar through the hole and against the table, and then cutting? I have done this with my Xikar cutter. It obviously isn't the traditional way to cut a cigar but I'm a novice in the world of cigars and also I smoke cigars usually after I've had a couple of drinks so I wanna makes sure I get a straigh cut.

[Poriggity]

Never tried it that was, but Im betting it'll work ok...
Scott

[RGD]

I currently use Xikar Xi2 cutter (my first and only cutter) to cut my Cuban cigars. I was wondering about the Palio cutter, can you cut the cigar with it by putting Palio on a table, putting the cap of the cigar through the hole and against the table, and then cutting? I have done this with my Xikar cutter. It obviously isn't the traditional way to cut a cigar but I'm a novice in the world of cigars and also I smoke cigars usually after I've had a couple of drinks so I wanna makes sure I get a straigh cut.

Never tried it that was, but Im betting it'll work ok...
Scott


No - that little trick works with Xikar but not the Palio. The nubs on the Palio will keep it too far off the surface - I know - I tried it already.


Ron

[Poriggity]

Thanks for clearing that up Ron :)
Scott

[cigarflip]

I used Xikars before but had to go through a lot of pain using them. I had my palm accidentally clipped, had the Xikar 1 lose all the little screws, had the Xikar 3 and although it looks nice, the wood insert disengages. You try to justify using them because you spent a lot of money on it and it does look good. Functionally though, I will take a Palio. They are the best cutters I've ever had.

[mason]

As an owner of a tupperdor, $5 torch lighter, and cheap plastic cutter, I've clearly resisted getting into the fancy accessories but these posts sold me.

Just ordered a palio from cigarmony. Looking forward to seeing the light in a few days. It feels good to order from a well-liked company and not some random website on the net.

[erab]

It feels good to order from a well-liked company and not some random website on the net.

I'd like to echo these thoughts...

I, too, broke down and picked up a palio and blazer late this morning from Mark. Within 20 minutes of my order, I received a friendly "thank you" from Mark where he indicated that my order was going out today.

I (obviously) have yet to receive it, but Mark is definitely off to a good start with me.

It does feel good to order from an actual "person" and not a faceless entity out there in cyberspace.

[txmatt]

I used Xikars before but had to go through a lot of pain using them. I had my palm accidentally clipped, had the Xikar 1 lose all the little screws, had the Xikar 3 and although it looks nice, the wood insert disengages. You try to justify using them because you spent a lot of money on it and it does look good. Functionally though, I will take a Palio. They are the best cutters I've ever had.

:tpd: :tpd: :tpd: :tpd: :tpd:

[benatlexus]

Just thought I would put my .02 after about 25 palio cuts....Great cutter...only problem I have had is on larger ring guage's I seem to have trouble making the cut where I want it...That might be user error but for the money I dont think you can go wrong!:2 :2

[n2advnture]

Just thought I would put my .02 after about 25 palio cuts....Great cutter...only problem I have had is on larger ring guage's I seem to have trouble making the cut where I want it...That might be user error but for the money I dont think you can go wrong!:2 :2

Maybe we can help. What kind of trouble?

I have experimented with a number of sticks and find that I can get a clean cut consistantly on 60 rg smokes and sometimes 62.

~Mark

[jinny]

hey guys, not sure if I should have just started a new thread, but I'm lazy, so now that I have both the Palio and the Xikars to use, I'm gonna post my thoughts on them here... :D

First off, my initial impressions of the Palio were correct... they felt the same to me as the model I tried a few years ago... I can't remember if that first one I tried had the BOTL crest icon thingy in it tho. I can say that the Palio cuts very nice... the action is very nice... my initial complain was that it felt awkward in my hand and that has not changed... now, with extensive use, I think I know why... I find myself trying to use them like scissors... so my thumb pushes in to the hole at an angle and is not the most comfortable for me... carefull examination of the finger position shows that the position that I try to have with the Palios that makes it awkward is, coincidentally, more like the finger postion that I use with the Xikars.

When I conscientiously position the Palio cutters correctly, it makes a beautiful cut... actually, even when I use them with my awkward position, the cut is fantastic. there is little to no play in the blades and the cut can be made very confidently.

That said, the Xikars cut very well too... I mentioned the "play" in the blades before... and I think it's more the feel of the springs holding the blades open. it can be disconcerting at first but I have gotten used to it and all my cuts are nice...

I am confident that my personal gripes with the way I hold the Palios would go away with enough use.

I did a few cuts thru a Mac Hyde Park and as you can see in the pics below, the cuts from both cutters are impecable... at least the cuts thru the entire width of the cigar...

what I couldn't show in the pics below, was the feel of the cut attempts on a larger guage traditional parejo cap... cuts on a torpedo or perfecto seem to be fine, but the sharper angle of a regular parejo cap seems to deflect the Xikars a little more than the Palio... so, what does that mean? well, whereas the cuts thru the width of a cigar by both the palio and Xikar are nigh indistiguishably perfect, some realworld cuts of caps were different... for example when cutting the cap on the Hyde Park, the Palio's light surgical tool like blades cut straight thru with little complaints... but the Xikar's heavier blades can be deflected a bit if you do not push the cigar toward the blade. using the technique of holding the Xikars flat on the table minimizes this issue... so in a realworld situation where you will probably be more likely be cutting the cap than the entire width of the cigar the cut on the Palios is better.

the largest cigar that can be cut thru the entire width is about a 52-54 ring guage for both cutters with maybe a little bigger for the Xikars. so the caps on something as big as 60RG should not be too dificult as long as you aren't trying to cut near the entire width.

I posted the cuts of the two cutters below, and just for fun, I pulled apart the Macanudo Hyde Park that I sacraficed for the test... For being as flavorless as I find them to be, they are certainly made well... long filler (none chopped)... nice almost artistically wrapped binder leaves, and nice wrapper too... the quality construction explains the consistency in draw quality... if they could only find some flavorful leaf, I would smoke 'em more.

[jinny]

of the two cutters the Xikars are by far the heaver ones... although dimensionally, they are smaller... so deciding which ones to carry around with you could be a toughy... I think my ideal/dream cutters would have the palio cut with a different finger position.

and of the two cases, I like the Xikars better... it's nitpicking, but the Xikars are leather and have a smaller velcro piece so they are easier to open and probably less likely to tear from opening too much.

the Palio cigar holder function is probably pretty usefull tho, so coupled with the fact that the Xikars are really heavy and more expensive, I think the Palios would be my cutter of choice of teh two to take around with me.

here are some side by side comparison pics of the cutters and cases

[txmatt]

First off, my initial impressions of the Palio were correct... they felt the same to me as the model I tried a few years ago... I can't remember if that first one I tried had the BOTL crest icon thingy in it tho.

The crest is there on the older ones but it isn't in the silver color like on the new ones; it is just embossed into the plastic composite.

[LasciviousXXX]

hey guys, not sure if I should have just started a new thread, but I'm lazy, so now that I have both the Palio and the Xikars to use, I'm gonna post my thoughts on them here... :D




WOW, thank you for the extensive report on the use of both cutters. A truly awesome post! Thanx for going through that for us and giving some of the newer guys a chance to see how both cutters work and your opinions on which one to use. Great post!

[Poriggity]

I agree Dustin! Great post, and thanks! I have used both as well, but you went the extra mile and posted pics and thoughts!
Scott

[jinny]

WOW, thank you for the extensive report on the use of both cutters. A truly awesome post! Thanx for going through that for us and giving some of the newer guys a chance to see how both cutters work and your opinions on which one to use. Great post!

hehe, my pleasure...

although I think I may have messed up my original recommendation of saving money by not buying numerous expensive cutters if you already have one you like.

now that I have both, I can definitely see a use for both... I have been carrying around the cheapy havana cutters as my portable cutter of choice, but I can definitely see myself carrying the Palio around... it's really light and easily pocketable that I have no reason to deny myself a clean cut no matter where I go. the Xikars are still more comfortable to me, and I'll probably still use them at home. But I can see that changing as I teach myself to use the Palio correctly.

maybe if I have time, I'll post a Havana cutter review too:D

probably not... I know already that there is no comparison to me... IMO the Havana cutters cut fine for portable duty, but I've crushed one too many a head (but usually not too bad) to suggest that they are on a similar level.

[The Professor]

WOW, thank you for the extensive report on the use of both cutters. A truly awesome post! Thanx for going through that for us and giving some of the newer guys a chance to see how both cutters work and your opinions on which one to use. Great post!

:tpd: :tpd: :tpd: :tpd:

Definitely a great post ... as is the followup. Thanks for sharing that info!!!

~Darrel

[bigman]

I just received my Palio from Cigarmony and am looking forward to getting to try it out, maybe when I get home from work, if I’m not too tired. :D

[n2advnture]

Great compro Jinny!

Thanks again for the support, I greatly appreciate it

~Mark

[RPB67]

Mark,

When are the new Palios coming !!!!!

[n2advnture]

Mark,
When are the new Palios coming !!!!!

Sooooonnnnn :u

[ezthefix]

Yup, ... use the palio almost exclusively. I made a tiny clip with a few tips for beginners and before I knew it the whole thing almost turned into a palio commercial.

tell me it isn't so... haha... VIDEO (http://www.humiblog.com/cigar-talk/cigar-basics-video/)

[n2advnture]

Yup, ... use the palio almost exclusively. I made a tiny clip with a few tips for beginners and before I knew it the whole thing almost turned into a palio commercial.
tell me it isn't so... haha... VIDEO (http://www.humiblog.com/cigar-talk/cigar-basics-video/)

Dude, that was great!

But how did you smoke a robusto and drink 1/2 a bottle of Scotch in 2 min 24 sec? :r

Well done

~Mark

[jinny]

Yup, ... use the palio almost exclusively. I made a tiny clip with a few tips for beginners and before I knew it the whole thing almost turned into a palio commercial.

tell me it isn't so... haha... VIDEO (http://www.humiblog.com/cigar-talk/cigar-basics-video/)
oh wow! I need a smoke...

what a fun video.

strangely engaging. :)

[WNCsmoker]

i recieved my palio with my first box a little over 2 weeks ago and i get the palio and a smoke and go to cut it and it crushes the back end of the cigar. i was thinking maybe the cigar is dry but then thought no its been in the humi for a few weeks (not one of the cigars straight out of the box i recieved) so then i get my other cutter (a meansardine) and it cuts the stick just fine. so then curiosity gets the better of me so i stick my finger into the opening of the palio. ive been around sharp things my whole life and i know under normal circumstances to keep fingers away from sharp blades but as i very very very very gently touch the edge i notice it doesnt feel too sharp. so i touch a little harder and after some very very very very careful checks i am able to spin the cutter around my finger. in short my brand new palio came to me as dull as a butter knife. needless to say i was pretty pissed off but then i took it to a B&M in atlanta when i was down there a week ago and got a new one. holy crapplesauce is it amazing. and i am a huge fan of the return policy. great cutter love the feel and ease of use. the nifty cigar rest feature is also really nice.

[n2advnture]

....holy crapplesauce is it amazing....

:r Now THAT'S an endorsement! :r

[Dr. Stogie Fresh]

of the two cutters the Xikars are by far the heaver ones... although dimensionally, they are smaller... so deciding which ones to carry around with you could be a toughy... I think my ideal/dream cutters would have the palio cut with a different finger position.

and of the two cases, I like the Xikars better... it's nitpicking, but the Xikars are leather and have a smaller velcro piece so they are easier to open and probably less likely to tear from opening too much.

the Palio cigar holder function is probably pretty usefull tho, so coupled with the fact that the Xikars are really heavy and more expensive, I think the Palios would be my cutter of choice of teh two to take around with me.

here are some side by side comparison pics of the cutters and cases

Jinny,

Some excellent thoughts here. Regarding the weight between Xikar and Palió, you are correct, the model Xikar you chose weighs in a 2.2 ounces, which is over twice as heavy as the Palió, which weighs 1.0 ounces. However, if weight is a significant buying factor, Xikar does make other models that are less heavy. The Xi alluminum is 1.4 ounces and their model with fiberglass composite is 1.4 ounces.

See my full review of the Xikar (http://www.stogiefresh.com/journal/Cigar_Journal/Accessories/62719D9E-5299-4915-A067-EDCD28C082F8.html) and Palió (http://www.stogiefresh.com/journal/Cigar_Journal/Accessories/529ADA97-86EB-4632-93E6-9F67344CCCDE.html) cutters here.

Doc

[dunng]

Yup, ... use the palio almost exclusively. I made a tiny clip with a few tips for beginners and before I knew it the whole thing almost turned into a palio commercial.

tell me it isn't so... haha... VIDEO (http://www.humiblog.com/cigar-talk/cigar-basics-video/)

That was awesome!! :al

[c-poc]

Mark - Just got Palio in mail yesterday... looks great!

Thanks again..

C. Pocklington

[squid]

Yup, ... use the palio almost exclusively. I made a tiny clip with a few tips for beginners and before I knew it the whole thing almost turned into a palio commercial.

tell me it isn't so... haha... VIDEO (http://www.humiblog.com/cigar-talk/cigar-basics-video/)

Good video! Good Stick! Great Scotch!

[EvanS]

I just got the 2 that I ordered yesterday, 1 stays home, 1 goes with me.
WOW!! Very nice. Almost made me pull out all my smokes and pre-cut them in one big snipping frenzy

Love it

[mrbl8k]

If you decide to buy one CigarGal, buy one from Mark over at Cigarmony.com Best prices and service one can imagine!
Scott


I just ordered mine from him.. Awesome service and I cant wait to use my new cutter

[boonedoggle]

I wonder if Mark is going to have a pit fight to the death for the new Burlwood when it comes out! :rolleyes:

[Ozone89]

Thanks for the review everyone!! So Cigarmony is who everyone is supporting here? K..I'm going to wait a day, and order the New style Palio from them.

[c-poc]

Good choice! I have a palio and LOVE it. Lifetime warranty... Unless I lose it, I will have a cutter for life

[mrbl8k]

I just got mine in. Heavier than I thought it would be which is a great sign! Overall looks to be a lifetime friend

[n2advnture]

I wonder if Mark is going to have a pit fight to the death for the new Burlwood when it comes out! :rolleyes:

:r It's already starting :r

[Ozone89]

I just ordered the Burlwood alittle while ago..now the mailman better be like this ------>:z