An observation about aged NCs

A

Addiction

Gentleman Jim Stogie
I see so many people who stick up for NCs over CCs, and talk about how equal (or even in some cases better) the NCs are.

I just wanted to make a single counterpoint in the form of a question: If aged NCs are so good how come they are so hard to sell? Over the past year I've sold 90 boxes and everyone that wasn't Opus or Anejo was a chore to move. Davidoffs, Avos, Diamond Crown Maximus and Padrons included. It really boggles my mind why people expect an aged box of Diamond Crown maximus to sell for 50% the price of a new box.

However with every aged box of cubans I've had its no contest. Not only can you easily sell them but typically no one will gripe if you sell them for more than you paid for them.

Why is that?
 
Talk is cheap.
"MANY" people can talk alot about how NC's are better, and in truth that may be THEIR opinion but my opinion is that the masses DON'T think that NC's are better.
Somewhere it was stated that you may hear this alot from B&M owners.

What's the phrase??
Money Talks Bullsh|t walks

Now send me a nice box of GOF's :chk
Did I understand you correctly in your other post, you don't like GOF's? OUTRAGEOUS :r
 
Bryan,
That's in interesting observation you've found, and in general I agree with you.

Just to play devil's advocate:
There's a small X factor to your equation in the fact that not everyone has access to get the CC's in the first place.
Therefore people are willing to pay a premium not only for a product that they can't buy normally, but also the fact that it has been cared for well.

NC's are easy to come by, unless they are small production runs like Tat Blacks, FFOX, etc. While it does take time and effort to age a NC, it's not nearly as difficult to find aged NC's as aged CC's.
 
Dunno.
Quite frankly, I try to get my NC stuff as new as possible. I seem to like them young.
When a box arrives that's totally unsmokable I'm glad of it because I know that after a certain period of time they'll be at their peak (or at least the peak that I like).
In a lot of instances that "peak period" that I like is very short. I have to smoke them fast or they mellow out so much that they don't do it for me anymore.

I think the NC resell thing is because there is always something new and inviting that grabs our attention and leaves the cigar budget thin.
I know there's probably 5 or 6 different boxes I'd like to buy right now, and I'd rather any one of them than a box of Padron's, but only because I already have Padrons. :)

I think cc guys are pretty loyal and know what they like. If you have a box of 03 Punch DC's for sale and that's what I like, and they're very difficult to find, I'm going to immediately bypass all the other boxes I wanted just to buy those Punch's.
NC's are always readily available, even ones with some time on them, or so it seems to me.
 
Brian.. If I were in the market for some of your AVO and Davidoff products, I would jump on your latest WTS, aged or not. My buying preferences just aren't there anymore.
 
FWIW, I haven't had many aged cigars at all. Most that I have had have been CCs. I am truly starting to believe that I like fresh cigars better. Of course there are exceptions...

for NC's - Padron Maduros only 6 years old blew away the already awesome fresh sticks.

for CC's - Only a few stick out. Maybe storage has a lot to with this.

I also think this is a 'availability' issue.
 
khubli said:
Brian.. If I were in the market for some of your AVO and Davidoff products, I would jump on your latest WTS, aged or not. My buying preferences just aren't there anymore.
Click to expand...
Hold you that screen name doesn't want Avos?

Who are you and what did you do with the real Khubli?
 
GrtndpwrflOZ said:
Talk is cheap.
"MANY" people can talk alot about how NC's are better, and in truth that may be THEIR opinion but my opinion is that the masses DON'T think that NC's are better.
Somewhere it was stated that you may hear this alot from B&M owners.

What's the phrase??
Money Talks Bullsh|t walks

Now send me a nice box of GOF's :chk
Did I understand you correctly in your other post, you don't like GOF's? OUTRAGEOUS :r
Click to expand...
Not really. The Don Carlos are decent but not sensational and the Carlitos are just plain awful.
 
I am not sure that a box of Diamond Crown with a year on the is "aged." Now if you have a ten year box, it might move better... It's this whole concept of; rested, aged and vintage... what does it mean? Is six months aging or resting or laying it down? To me aged is 3-5 years minimum, well aged 5-10...

I also think it has something to do with cost. I have people rave about Padron x000 cigars with a few years on them... These are price friendly cigars that the everyday Joe can afford to age and smoke...

Finally, I think it has to do with the hype of something being "aged." How often to we see comments like this: "What bundle cigar would be good to age?" "How well do the Famous Nic 3000's age?" or my personal favorite "Even though it tastes like shit now, let it age and it will be terrific..."
 
skibumdc said:
...people are willing to pay a premium not only for a product that they can't buy normally, but also the fact that it has been cared for well...
Click to expand...

:tpd: Forbidden fruit and all. Plus, there's a lot of competition for NC's online, and many don't take into account that yours had some age.:2
 
I would think that the laws of supply and demand are at work here. NCs are easy to come by and can be had from numerous vendors at pretty good prices. It is an almost continous supply with a questionable demand for aged NCs that keeps the prices lower. CCs on the other hand are much harder to come by and the mystique about aged cigars is strong for Cubans. Short or limited supply and high demand equals higher prices.

From my own newbie point of view, many of the cigars you're offering are ones that I haven't smoked yet. You tend to offer boxes which means a larger up front investment in untried cigars. They also tend to be what I would call premium cigars, so the price per cigar is much more than I normally pay.

With that said, I did smoke my first 2005 God of Fire Saturday night and my wife said that I should buy some more of them. :ss
 
Price and availability are a big issue. Gotta remember that the aged or vintage market for NC is relatively young compared to Cuban cigars.

Might be a food chain issue as well. Many here may have started with NC cigars and gravitated to Cuban cigars over time. Those getting started are not as numbed to the pricing of things as some who have been collecting longer. For the longer term smoker/collector going back, no matter how tasty the cigars may have become might be difficult given their established frame of reference.

I've had some great NC aged cigars in the past couple of years. They rival many island counterparts. Pricing is an issue though. Think taxes and the impact value to value.
 
SmokinApe said:
I am not sure that a box of Diamond Crown with a year on the is "aged." Now if you have a ten year box, it might move better... It's this whole concept of; rested, aged and vintage... what does it mean? Is six months aging or resting or laying it down? To me aged is 3-5 years minimum, well aged 5-10...

I also think it has something to do with cost. I have people rave about Padron x000 cigars with a few years on them... These are price friendly cigars that the everyday Joe can afford to age and smoke...

Finally, I think it has to do with the hype of something being "aged." How often to we see comments like this: "What bundle cigar would be good to age?" "How well do the Famous Nic 3000's age?" or my personal favorite "Even though it tastes like shit now, let it age and it will be terrific..."
Click to expand...
I sold a few 07 boxes, most of my boxes, even NCs were 05 or older fitting nicely into your definition of aging.

Also for me I'd say under a year is aging, over a year is aging 10 years is vintage.

And I doubt any NC aged will move. I mean if I have a box of 07 Cohibas, or Montes or pretty much any brand priced fairly it will move. Thats not true for padroms or DCMs.
 
Addiction obviously prefers CCs over NCs and that's fine. There's nothing to defend here and there's no use in trying to tell someone who believes different that CCs are the best.

I agree with the other guy that the reason your boxes don't sell too well is because they are complete boxes and it takes a true enthusiast to pony up that kind of jack. Especially in this economy. And, premium NC prices in the WTS forum can often be beaten handily by internet sites if you know where to look. And many, like Addiction, have 'evolved' beyond NCs and will only spend big dollars on aged Cubans.

Ironically I've gone the other way. My budget smokes lately are tending to be CCs (bolis, hdm, partagas) and the big dollar smokes are GOFs and Padrons.
 
Addiction said:
I see so many people who stick up for NCs over CCs, and talk about how equal (or even in some cases better) the NCs are.

I just wanted to make a single counterpoint in the form of a question: If aged NCs are so good how come they are so hard to sell? Over the past year I've sold 90 boxes and everyone that wasn't Opus or Anejo was a chore to move. Davidoffs, Avos, Diamond Crown Maximus and Padrons included. It really boggles my mind why people expect an aged box of Diamond Crown maximus to sell for 50% the price of a new box.

However with every aged box of cubans I've had its no contest. Not only can you easily sell them but typically no one will gripe if you sell them for more than you paid for them.

Why is that?
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I don't stick up for either. I do know for some, times are tight. That might have had something to do with your trouble selling your boxes, don't know. On the other hand I can't say that I've seen nor heard of any aged cubans for sale on here. Probably within your cliques there are but certainly not in the open.

I would love to have a box of Partagas Lusitanias. I don't know how to get them. In time hopefully I will. I'm sure all of you fortunate enough to know how were in my shoes at some point. For those of us that have no access to cuban cigars your argument is falling on deaf ears.
:2
 
Addiction said:
Hold you that screen name doesn't want Avos?

Who are you and what did you do with the real Khubli?
Click to expand...

LOL, I've got enough 77s and a few 22s left to tide me over. Don't get me wrong, I still love those smokes, but I'd rather spend my funds on other smokes these days. :ss

It's really me.
 
Interesting discussion. I can't add much with regards to cigars since they're a relatively new hobby to me. But I have a fairly substantial cellar of pipe tobacco - you could call me a pipe tobacco 'ho. Premium brands of pipe tobacco (Samuel Gawith, Cornell & Diehl, McClelland, Gawith & Hoggarth, Rattray's, etc.) virtually alway sell for a premium above intermet retail prices if they have several years on them. If the blend is no longer made then the resale price goes up dramatically.

Where ISOM's are concerned, there is also the factor of the risks importing them. Personally, I would reluctant to buy ISOM's from an internet dealer due to the risks with which we are all aware. However, once that box is safely in the country, and the risk is removed, the product becomes more attractive and the price would go up correspondingly.
 
tsolomon said:
I would think that the laws of supply and demand are at work here. NCs are easy to come by and can be had from numerous vendors at pretty good prices. It is an almost continous supply with a questionable demand for aged NCs that keeps the prices lower. CCs on the other hand are much harder to come by and the mystique about aged cigars is strong for Cubans. Short or limited supply and high demand equals higher prices.

From my own newbie point of view, many of the cigars you're offering are ones that I haven't smoked yet. You tend to offer boxes which means a larger up front investment in untried cigars. They also tend to be what I would call premium cigars, so the price per cigar is much more than I normally pay.

With that said, I did smoke my first 2005 God of Fire Saturday night and my wife said that I should buy some more of them. :ss
Click to expand...


:tpd: Well written. I was trying to formulate an answer similiar to yours.
 
I concur with all the supply/demand comments made above, as well as second the comments on box vs. smaller quantities. Plus, I really feel the economic downturn is a factor. I have been unable to sell anything recently and these are not aged or vintage or whatever. Some people are hurting.
 
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