CAO cubist ashtray is awesome BUT...

Footbag said:
I think the strategy right now is to get as many quotes as possible. Feel free to try. If you can use the current drawings, then give them a shot. Also, any insight on cost saving would be great.
I'm willing to do a good amount of the work, and put up some money; but everything I know about CAD and machining I learned yesterday. So take it FWIW.
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We have 2 CAD drafters here and a guy or 2 that can plan and program the production on the machines we have. They've been happy to do side things in the past. Problem is we are now just completely swamped and keeping these machines booked, not to mention the personnel.

I will run it by them, I doubt we can do anything any time soon as far as production goes but they could surely give us a better idea of how to go about designing, planning and what type of shop would be able to knock it out at the best price.

One question that I can think of off the top of my head: what's the material? I think aluminum would look dank after a while but it would hold up nice. I wouldn't mind some nice hardwood since you don't really grind or stub a cigar out, don't see much danger of marring the wood in that way, even after a long period of time.

One thing's for sure, machining, especially this many complicated angles and shapes, is gonna be way more expensive than using some kind of material you can use a mold with. If you wanna do some engraving on it as well (CAM engraving the CS LLG logo with a microspindle) then you might even be talking about using 2 separate shops :hn
 
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Depending on what the group wants, and the timelines involved, I'm still willing to use my smaller CNC if it fits the requirements. I know I can do 6x6x3, but don't know for sure if I can pull off 8x8x3.

We've done a couple out of wood with good success, but getting a nice finish (no/little tool marks, etc.) may be difficult on aluminum.

We do all the CAD/CAM in house (just my brother and I), but we aren't a real machine shop, just a side business/hobby, so I couldn't turn them out very quickly.
 
-MG- said:
Depending on what the group wants, and the timelines involved, I'm still willing to use my smaller CNC if it fits the requirements. I know I can do 6x6x3, but don't know for sure if I can pull off 8x8x3.

We've done a couple out of wood with good success, but getting a nice finish (no/little tool marks, etc.) may be difficult on aluminum.

We do all the CAD/CAM in house (just my brother and I), but we aren't a real machine shop, just a side business/hobby, so I couldn't turn them out very quickly.
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Sorry I missed your earlier posts MG, very nice work, you look like a man that's bitten off a big project if everyone gets wound up on the idea :D
 
who cares if it says CAO and you dont have the sticks. just a brand. i say if you like the cubist one, then get it! i am looking into getting either a Ashton ashtray or cool Cohiba one... do i smoke any of these stogies? very rarely. i just like the cool look!:D
 
-MG- said:
Depending on what the group wants, and the timelines involved, I'm still willing to use my smaller CNC if it fits the requirements. I know I can do 6x6x3, but don't know for sure if I can pull off 8x8x3.

We've done a couple out of wood with good success, but getting a nice finish (no/little tool marks, etc.) may be difficult on aluminum.

We do all the CAD/CAM in house (just my brother and I), but we aren't a real machine shop, just a side business/hobby, so I couldn't turn them out very quickly.
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If you wanted to give it a shot, we can probably downscale the design to take either 6" X 6" or 8" X 8". A smaller scale prototype will give us an idea of whether it will actually hold the cigars well, or if we need to change a few angles. If you're willing, just tell me what you'll need.
Thanks MG!
 
I am in the process of getting a piece of Al. to make one. I work on a mill. And can do these after hours. I just want to try one before I commit to a group. I am just wondering how many would like one.
 
extrmblzr1 said:
I am in the process of getting a piece of Al. to make one. I work on a mill. And can do these after hours. I just want to try one before I commit to a group. I am just wondering how many would like one.
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This depends on the price. We should try to gauge interest by price. If you can manage to get it under $300 for the first aluminum one, then I think we have something to work with.

Of those who are interested, what is the max you think is reasonable? $50, $100, $200, $300 or $500. We could possibly use different finishes/materials for each price point from wood to aluminum.
 
DonnieW said:
That is a very sensible approach. :tu
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I'd think more of the cost would be tied up in labor/shop hours (as opposed to material)?

I myself am not the type to shell out a lot for an ashtray, I use the ground or a tin box I found in my garage when we moved in :) If it got under a hundred, more likely under 50 I've give it consideration
 
extrmblzr1 said:
I priced out a 9x9x3 Al is $156 just in material. I can get the machining done for free up to 5. let me know.
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Wow, we're almost there. It may help us to do one out of wood before we move to the more expensive aluminum.

That said, we may be ready for aluminum within the week.
 
I kind of like this design also.

ashtraynew.jpg


I have found that anything molded is going to be at least $1200 for the first one. So it's either wood or aluminum.
 
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yayson said:
I'd think more of the cost would be tied up in labor/shop hours (as opposed to material)?
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You're right and I agree, to a point. The shop time is somewhat close regardless of the material. The CNC doesn't care what its cutting. I cut plastic, wood, aluminum, etc. using the exact same drawing and only a few mods on how it cuts. Setup time is more or less the same as well.

But! Once the first prototype is done, the tables turn completely. At that point it’s all material cost. This is providing the CNC nails everything. It’s not safe to assume the CNC will do everything in the drawing, which would be a big mistake. You'll only know once you carve one out of foam or wood. One must also add in a scrap piece - so when you're messing with blocks of aluminum at hundreds a pop, someone will need to absorb it. Blades go bad, things f*up, it’s just the way it goes in the shop.

I wouldn't spend more than 50 bucks on materials, I add a few hours of my own personal time and I yield ashtrays worth a lot more. But then again, I gift all mine, so it’s got a completely different connotation than this thread does.
 
A simple round bowl ashtray can be done with a lathe and a faceplate to turn on, nothing complicated about that. I've made dozens.

The cubist is something more difficult, but I believe that can be done by hand with a plunge router and some crafty jigging. Make a sloped jig and mount it to the center face and plunge off the angled walls, then make an overhead jig to depth the bowl.
 
-MG- said:
...as well as another that I can't show until Saturday (it was made as a gift, and I'm not sure if the recipient is a member of the board)...
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Now that the gift's been given, here's the other ashtray I was talking about:

Pic1
Pic2


Footbag said:
If you wanted to give it a shot, we can probably downscale the design to take either 6" X 6" or 8" X 8". A smaller scale prototype will give us an idea of whether it will actually hold the cigars well, or if we need to change a few angles. If you're willing, just tell me what you'll need.
Thanks MG!
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If it could be pulled off in a 6x6x2 block (I have plenty of that size handy, and didn't pay too much for it) I could probably give it a try next weekend. In order to get a nice clean cut on the angles I'd have to rotate the cutter head, which isn't difficult in itself to do but I need to experiment with running CNC programs with the head at an angle and see if there are any unexpected issues in doing that which I'm not aware of.

Also.. Was there any consensus about the potential legal/copyright issues?
 
Just for the record, if round aluminum can be made for $100 or less before the X-mas shopping season (when I don't have any money), I'm in!

These designs look great.
 
-MG- said:
Also.. Was there any consensus about the potential legal/copyright issues?
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OK, I had a few chats and did a ton of reading on copyright law. This would fall under "Fair Use" which is very vague. Although it would be very difficult to win a case of copyright infringement, clothing and accessories designers try and lose every day; I don't think that I or anyone else would want to even have to respond to any sort of cease and desist letter.

There is no actual % or difference it must be, BUT and this is kind of significant. Cubism or cubist sculpture cannot be copyrighted and even if this design is, it wouldn't prevent us from creating our own using inspiration from the original piece. As far as past precedent legal is concerned, ANY variation on the original design;(material, size, shape, function) would stand up in court; but once again court is further then I'm willing to go.

My opinion would be to go with the round one.
 
Footbag said:
OK, I had a few chats and did a ton of reading on copyright law. This would fall under "Fair Use" which is very vague. Although it would be very difficult to win a case of copyright infringement, clothing and accessories designers try and lose every day; I don't think that I or anyone else would want to even have to respond to any sort of cease and desist letter.

There is no actual % or difference it must be, BUT and this is kind of significant. Cubism or cubist sculpture cannot be copyrighted and even if this design is, it wouldn't prevent us from creating our own using inspiration from the original piece. As far as past precedent legal is concerned, ANY variation on the original design;(material, size, shape, function) would stand up in court; but once again court is further then I'm willing to go.

My opinion would be to go with the round one.
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Putting my investigator hat on, and to slightly poop on the parade, if anyone wanted to pursue a claim against you they could subject Club Stogie to an Anton Pillar order. That is, they could rightfully scoop all the info off this site to find out the real identities, etc. Thus, your choice to go with a round design is a wise one.

Now back to the program.
 
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