For all newbs....

I guess I may have been part of the problem in the NST. As a newb in the NST III, I was smacked around pretty hard and I thought as an FTG that is just what FTGs did. I often tell newbs to send me 3 to 5 sticks they enjoy and I will send them something I think they will like. Sometimes that will be 10 sticks and sometimes it might be 15 or 20. I apologize if this contributed toward an "escalation". My bad. I guess I wasn't paying enough attention, didn't notice anyone "expecting" their humis to be filled up. I just enjoy doing it.

I never expect newbs to send premium sticks. In fact, I prefer that they don't. I do try to advise newbs on packaging, etc.

I look forward to reviewing the new NST rules.
 
Ok I went back and dug up a few things posted by the FOGs pertaining to this subject..Iamgine that..this subject being brought up before..

From Donweb (I believe this is wwho created these rules)
"What is a newbie sampler thread you ask?
1) A rotating pool/queue of 10 to 20 ESTABLISHED members(FTGs) offer to exchange a sampler of cigars with ClubStogie Newbies(NGs). The NG sends cigars with information about each to give the FTG an idea of cigars they enjoy. The FTG will return their end of the trade after receiving the Newbie’s cigars and will pick the cigars to return according to the Newbie’s end. Newbies May Send no more than 5 cigars - of value no more than $50 US.
2) The Newbie sends first to establish their status as a good faith participant on this board. This is to ensure that someone doesn’t register for the simple purpose of ‘mooching’ cigars from the established members of this board. FTGs are reputable members of the board having completed a number of satisfactory trades, and the board will ‘insure’ that trades properly initiated by a newbie are reciprocated.

3) Newbies are treated well in these trades, FTGs are not involved in this trade to profit, instead they send cigars worth a little more than what they receive. It should also be noted that newbie trades are not the appropriate place to send your ‘dog rockets,’ or cigars you would like to dispose of – from either end. Participants are encouraged to post pictures of the cigars the receive so that the Newbie gets credit for their effort and the FTG is held accountable for sending quality cigars."

From DonJefe
"What is a newbie sampler thread you ask? It goes like this:

1) A rotating pool/queue of 10 to 20 ESTABLISHED members offers to send cigar newbies a sampler of cigars to try. The Established Member (EM) sends cigars with information about each to give the newbie a sampling of good cigars that they think would be useful to the newbie to experience different tasting cigars.

2) The newbie decides approximately how much they want to spend on the sampler before the EM puts it together. Once an agreed value is determined the EM tells the newbie where to order a box of cigars or an accessory of equivalent value and has it shipped it to the EM. The EM mails the sampler to the newbie once the box/accessory is received.

3) It is important that the newbies be treated well, EMs should not get in to this to profit, but instead count on losing some $ by ensuring they send cigars worth a little more than what they receive. It should also be noted that newbie trades are not the appropriate place to send your dog rockets, unless you send them as extras noting that you don't like them but maybe the newbie will.

As a group we can iron out the details better if there is enough interest and enough EMs willing to do this. I have a few suggested rules below, they can be discussed of course.
a) Minimum newbie investment $25,
b) Maximum value of trade cap $150
c) EM should have 250+ posts and/or 6 months on board"


and we have just used these basic rules for the contuning of the NST and the newbie PIF..it was never for the cigars..well it is a bit but its more for the Newbie to learn the ropes of shipping and posting and that and a few newbies will get a new stick to try.


To the FTGs who feel as though they need to knock a head loose...create a WILD MONKEY TRADE..man when I got here we would wait and drool!!


AGAIN I want to thank everyone for thier words and suggestions and thank you all for the bump over 1k in RG..but on that same note...that is not what is important...whether you have 10 or 10K you have an opinion here and it matters.


Shawn
 
Definitely great read! Sticky in order? Thanks so much for this post, very informative and makes me definitely want to get in on the NST, esp after drhalle's post, as I hopefully don't consider myself too n00bish anymore, but at the same time I don't know everything. If I'm not mistaken, didn't I read that there's soon to be a new NST set up? If so I'll definitely be looking forward to joining.
 
Interesting read, out of 44 responses you only got 2 true newb's on this list that had under 200 posts, I'm proud to make it 3. I know the number of posts doesn't mean anything but you have to wonder why only 3 have responded to this thread? First of all I agree with the original post. I made two trades and contrary to the way a lot of you feel about newb's, I participated to make new fellowship, try different cigars and experience the interactions. Both times I received more cigars then I sent, which I was very grateful, but it was so much that I dropped away from it because I felt I couldn't keep up to the FTG expectation. I'm happy that Shaggy is looking at changing the rules. As a newb I do feel like I'm being catagorized, only I know the real truth to why I participate in CS and other newb's will have to make their own conclusion. Not all newb's are in this for the wrong reason and for those who are here for the right reasons I raise my cigar in a toast. Thank you, I'm stepping down from the soapbox.
 
runningonmt64 said:
Interesting read, out of 44 responses you only got 2 true newb's on this list that had under 200 posts, I'm proud to make it 3. I know the number of posts doesn't mean anything but you have to wonder why only 3 have responded to this thread? First of all I agree with the original post. I made two trades and contrary to the way a lot of you feel about newb's, I participated to make new fellowship, try different cigars and experience the interactions. Both times I received more cigars then I sent, which I was very grateful, but it was so much that I dropped away from it because I felt I couldn't keep up to the FTG expectation. I'm happy that Shaggy is looking at changing the rules. As a newb I do feel like I'm being catagorized, only I know the real truth to why I participate in CS and other newb's will have to make their own conclusion. Not all newb's are in this for the wrong reason and for those who are here for the right reasons I raise my cigar in a toast. Thank you, I'm stepping down from the soapbox.
Click to expand...



i think that alot of ppl are taking this wrong. in a talk with shawn he told me that this was not specific to the NST. the NST just magnified what he was seeing here. no matter what is done to any thread i dont think we will get rid of this all together. there are threads all over that this attitude can be found in.

no one is being catagorized...it is up to you and you alone to be seen as what you truely are.
i think that maybe the new members are not sure of themselves enough to post here. the ones that truely belong will stay and become part of the community. the others....well....they will drop away.

it is up to us to keep what we have here as we want it. i have never, in real life or online, seen such a community nor have i ever tried to help out as much in one. this just feels like home.


hopefully in the next few days the new NST will be up then we can move on to something else......


cheers guys
mike
 
Shawn,

Excellent post. I know at one point, I may have contributed to the escalation in the NST also.

As a FTG, I asked the Newb to follow a couple directions. 1) send no more than 5 cigars. 2) send me cigars you have smoked and enjoyed. This allowed me to be able to send them something different but similar that I thought they would enjoy and also a few others that may be of a stronger strength and a different flavor profile to get them to try new things. Well to do that, I usually ended up sending 10 cigars back to the newb.

If the newb didn't follow the rules or didn't seem to me to be a true newb, I would change my response, and maybe respond with a few less cigars but still try to send back somewhat higher quality cigars.

I guess my point is as an FTG, you have to evaluate the newb and respond accordingly. I didn't and still don't see a problem with returning a few extra cigars to a true newbie who may not have the extensive collection that I do.

When I joined here, I had a modest collection of about 50-60 cigars. I had been smoking for about 10 years but very minimally, maybe 2-3 a month. Now, I have 2 coolers and a humidor full of cigars and smoke 5-6 a week. I would have never turned into the collector/connoisseur:D I am if it wasn't for a few great gorillas who send me some fabulous smokes in the NST.

I do have to agree that the NST has gotten to be a bit ridiculous. That is basically the reason that I have taken a back seat in the NST and really haven't been involved there in a few months. There are also so many new FTG's that I also don't feel the need to be there any more.

So enough of my stories and ramblings. I am basically saying that if things change in the NST, there is a very good possibility that you will begin to see my face there again. I like to be contributer in this great community that has taken me in and treated me like a brother.

Excellent post Shawn and many great points added by not-so-newbs. I can't wait to see the new rules Shaggy implements in the NST.
 
As a newbie myself I will contribute my thoughts.... When I came I had a modest 50 count humi with MAYBE 20 smokes in it, most of them bought at a HUGE discount from a place going out of business, 50 and 25% of retail is all I paid. I got in on the NST and got pretty much bombed by reggiebuckeye. He said to send only 5 but sent 9 back all much higher end sticks than i sent.

This was taken by me a 2 things, 1 we are both fans of THE Ohio State University and thus i thought maybe i got a bit of preferential treatment. This was a great gesture! Second I thought it was probably just a welcome kind of thing and as stated previously, to help a new guy who probably has a pretty small collection.

I then got in on the ruined Humi Thread and I sent out 3 smokes, this time it kinda struck me as i thought 3 smokes was a pretty nice gesture, but I was SMALL potatoes compared to others, sending 5, 10, 15 smokes to this guy.

Then I began noticing on the Noob PIF, and Noob NST that what older guys were sending i just could not compete with. I don't have the stock to take a 5 stick hit every trade. This was frustrating for a few reasons, 1 I felt like a prick when I had to qualify a guy by saying "I am not gonna be able to send 10 stick back like other guys do". Second i questioned whether I should even participate at that point as I felt that I didn't "hold up" to the standard.

This thread has made me feel better, and I see nothing wrong with sending a new guy 6-7 sticks to his 5, I am MORE than happy to take a 1-2 stick hit to make a guy feel welcome, and IF I found another OSU fan, or someone with a similar interest (guitars, cars, formula 1) I might send them 8-10 on a SPECIFIC trade for a SPECIFIC reason. But I cannot just blanket send 10 smokes for no reason.

I have been blessed thus far and have basically (not intentionally) tripled my smoke count, and I WANT to contribute in the spirit of Bobarian, ReggieBuckeye, Jaymz, and others, but I do think it is a slippery slope (and this time in a bad way) when the STANDARD seems to be doubling your half of the trade just because your an established member.

This is going to be my philosophy as a now "older" member, and I use the word "Older" lightly. I will get involved with the NST with the intention of sending back prolly at least 1 prolly 2 more sticks then i receive, and in most cases a higher quality set of sticks. I think any new smoker will be happy to send 5 sticks valuing roughly 3-5 dollars per stick and receive 6-7 he hasn't had valuing 5-10 dollars each. I should state now that i KNOW this is not about money it is just the easiest denominator when trying to explain quality i suppose. In this way he is exposed to NEW sticks, gets a welcoming "gift", and can begin to feel some of the generosity this forums offers.

I would suggest to the member who have the inventory, funding, or desire to send out and extra 10-20 sticks a month, make some creative contests for the noobs with cigar related topics, in this way your still able to contribute to the level you want to , but it is also educational and equal opportunity. In this way a noob s not going to be saying "Man i screwed getting hooked up with bigben I wish i would have gotten someone else who would have sent me 5 boxes of OpusX instead of this mixed bag of 7 smokes"

Ok I am done rambling!!!!
 
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I will agree with many of the points made in this thread. The NST has gotten a little out of hand due to the latest crop of enthusiastic members. I'll admit to missing the point of the NST myself when I first got involved with it. While I was still a noob and didn't even know what super premium sticks were, I sent not 5, but 10 of my best sticks to an FTG. From what was going on around me, the NST looked like a place to get noticed and overkill was the way to do it. I've since seen the light and get the purpose and importance of the NST. One thing that I think would improve the thread a lot would be giving much more detailed feedback to the noob such as was the packaging good, was there a personal note included, and did the sticks sent seem to be in good condition (stored properly)? A lot of new people are very intimidated by the NST as evidenced by the PMs I've fielded from guys afraid to get involved with it. It really shouldn't be that way.

On the other hand, many of the FTGs also seem to be going over the top. Now I love to see someone get bombed as much as the next guy but it can make some FTGs feel bad that they can't send out 20 super premiums and a humidor to every noob. It also raises expectations of FTGs by the noobs. I've noticed that some FTGs sit on the list for longer than others because they play by the rules vs. sending bombs. There's also the case of certain noobs just dropping in to get a bombing from an FTG and then disappearing. Still, I don't think that FTGs should be restricted too much in what they send. As an FTG, I would like to send noobs quality sticks that I enjoy and maybe throw in a little something extra when the situation calls for it :tu The really devastating bombs and high dollar trades should definitely take place somewhere other than the NST though.

Shawn, thanks for your excellent post on this topic and a big thanks to Mike for all the work he's doing with the NST! The NST really is a great thing, we just need to get back to using it for the purpose that is was intended.
 
For me, I received two gifts simply because I was a beginner. Both of these were over the top (not a bad thing). Immediately after hearing these people were sending me things, I found another beginner and 2 other members and I sent him 3 total bombs. I personally did not do this out of guilt, but felt it was the right thing to do.

I will admit, the sticks I got were great. I feel if someone REALLY want to impress a noob, the best thing to do is send them 5 cigars. From there they should include 5 cigars of different qualities, and write a list of the order they should smoke them in.

I find that for a beginner to receive high end sticks it is pretty much a waste. You dont know what a good stick is until you have smoked bad ones.

In a summary here is my idea:
1. Send 5 cigars of different qualities, low end to middle to high end.
2. Include a list of the order they should smoke them in.
3. From there the noob would realize why the high end is so good and why low ends are not.
4. The noob would learn alot and appreciate the sticks more.

 
Great Post Shawn...The NST was such a valuable experience for myself, due to the fact that not only was I able to try cigars that I had never had but also learned many things along with forgeing those great friendships. I am gald that mike and yourself have decieded to modify the rules so that the newbies of the future will hopefully be able to take something away from the experience too.
 
drhalle said:
As a Newbie here, I felt that I didn't want anyone to send me sticks because I've been smoking cigars for about ten years and didn't feel like a newbie. I know that is wrong and I should pay my dues, get RG and build trust on this site. I still don't feel like a newbie mostly because of the Gorillas have been so nice and the acceptance of ideas is first rate here. Best site on the net.
My question is should I start over and do the NST and Newbie PIF or is there something else I should do?
Click to expand...

Maybe a late answer, but as a fairly new guy, I would say yes. I did the NSt's later than most, but have become close friends with both of my FTG's. We now go to each other for advice or tasting tips on cigars, this also is great because we have very similiar tasting profiles.
 
Not much I can add that wasn't stated before. Sometimes we need to step back and look at the direction things are going. Very good post Shawn.

Keep in mind, bombs should be sent for the thought. The fact that you did something good for a fellow human should far outweigh any bit of publicity or repercussion you receive. The collection doesn't make the BOTL, the heart does.
 
Well, I just had to respond to this thread. I am about as new as one could be at this forum and was a bit confused by the post. I am not a newcomer to cigars, only this forum. I did not join to get free cigars, only information on a hobby I am passionate about. The folks I have met via forums have always been generous with their knowledge and experience and of course welcoming to anyone who shows and interest in cigars.

I am not familiar with the acronyms tossed about in this thread, and do not feel compelled to learn them. I just would like to participate in this forum and learn more about new cigars and their care. If I have an experience that may be of help to someone, newcomer or otherwise, I would like to contribute.

Just my 2 cents.

Hope all of you are having a wonderful Christmas Holiday!!
 
I miss your drunk rants ;)

ssutton219 said:
Its been weighing on my mind for a bit and been discussed between those I hold a high level of respect, and now been brought up on a thread...



Your CS expectations....


When I showed up here 9 months ago I knew nothing about cigars..I signed up here because of the word of another member on another board. I got my email/pm stating I had to wait 24hrs to post so I read all I could. I am not a vocal or outgoing type person, I would rather people not know my name and who I am..well that changed here. Any and all questions were answered for me before I asked, by looking and searching, and a few were answered 2, 3, 4 and 5 more times with out someone saying "Search Noob". I never in my wildest dreams ever thought I would send someone I did not know cigars to try...why would I give up something I spent my hard earned money on and GIVE to a complete stranger??? Well I did, took a week for this gentleman to give up his address and to this day I do not know why I did this, but you know what..I can call him one of my best friends and I have traveled 5 hrs to meet, have him marry me and my wife and herf with him. I signed up for the NST with Donweb and was happy to be included in the end of it...I got 5 sticks and I couldn't believe someone I didn't know would send them to me because I signed up, and I signed up in the Newbie PIF and I got 5 sticks again people outside of this community do not understand.......


Now, my point to this long post is there are new gorillas here expecting to get their humidor filled and be smacked out of this world with free cigars, which does happen but it is not what the NST and the Newbie PIF are meant for. These were put in place to help you earn trust and learn how things are done here, how to pack whats considered a good trade and continue this family feeling. There are people who sign up here who have been smoking for years and we have people who sign up every day who have yet to own a humidor. There are bomb threads for the "wars" and the complete wipe out of peoples mailboxes but I am seeing less and less of the fogs participate and that is not good for this community. I had two of the most respected FOGs correct me in a post when I opened my mouth and gave horrible advice...it was not personal it was "not how we do things here Shawn"...not many places where a FOG shows you respect when you screw up.


All I am asking is that for more of the new guys to read 1st and post second and make sure you are in the NST and Newbie PIF for the right reasons, or any newbie contest. (My 1st contest was in my 1st week here and it was a search contest). If you agree to do something (I.E. trade, lottery, pass) make sure you can fulfill it and if there is an issue this place is more understanding than anyone i know...better than any grandma I ever had....just let someone know and lastly..USE pms..its alot better to voice concern than to cause an issue for all to make judgments on. I do not agree with how everything is done and I have voiced my concerns and they were heard..and I felt better.



Anyone who wants to post their opinion please do!! I welcome it.




Thank you all for having me here!!



Shawn
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I'd like to be added as a first timer (I do have trading feedback and I've been here for more than 30 days though...)
 
I for one didn't sign in for the newb contest due to the fact I didn't want people thinking I signed up to get free cigars and stuff like that. I signed up for the education and the faith that you guys know what your talking about. You all have proven that time and time again. I am the type that doesn't post alot but read the post and know when to put my :2in.
 
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