German smoke-ban ruling...

Glad that a court somewhere finally understood the stupidity of banning smoking. :hnHopefully it will be a domino effect for other nations going thru the anti-smoking movement. :tu
 
I can't speak for other states but the ban in Iowa was never voted on by the PEOPLE only by the politicians. Since this type of thing effects everyone this is something that should be a statewide vote. It's all this fear mongering that is driving most of these bans anyway and for most people when you explain the actual facts they are simply shocked by the reality.
 
Mystophales said:
I can't speak for other states but the ban in Iowa was never voted on by the PEOPLE only by the politicians. Since this type of thing effects everyone this is something that should be a statewide vote. It's all this fear mongering that is driving most of these bans anyway and for most people when you explain the actual facts they are simply shocked by the reality.
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It really makes you think: how far does it actually have to go before someone starts getting pretty active about stopping this crap? I'm not saying that to criticize anyone (except those pushing for this nonsense), it just really makes you wonder.

I'm only 23 but I remember being raised to think that a man made his own decisions...
 
Mystophales said:
I can't speak for other states but the ban in Iowa was never voted on by the PEOPLE only by the politicians. Since this type of thing effects everyone this is something that should be a statewide vote. It's all this fear mongering that is driving most of these bans anyway and for most people when you explain the actual facts they are simply shocked by the reality.
Click to expand...

Coming from Washington state all I can tell you is that the last thing you want to have happen is a popular vote on this issue. That's how we wound up with the strictest non-smoking laws in the nation. I like to think that if left up to the legislature there might have been some compromise for cigar lounges and such.
 
mugwump said:
Coming from Washington state all I can tell you is that the last thing you want to have happen is a popular vote on this issue. That's how we wound up with the strictest non-smoking laws in the nation. I like to think that if left up to the legislature there might have been some compromise for cigar lounges and such.
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:tpd:

I personally don't trust the common person to not trample all over my right to smoke... I could just see the wonderful people of Colorado banning it completely... won't stop me from getting them if it means I have to fly to Europe to do it...
 
Mystophales said:
I can't speak for other states but the ban in Iowa was never voted on by the PEOPLE only by the politicians.
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I don't want to turn this into a debate on politics, but isn't that the reason you vote and elect people into whatever your state-wide body of government is called? I mean, you do it so that they will represent your opinion, and if they don't, well, then you voted for the wrong person...
 
The problem with this ruling is that now they have to reconsider the laws. The way the laws were made allowed establishments that had the room to do so to install separate smoking zones. This, however, was unfair to those establishments that didn't have the room to do so like many little neighborhood bars we have. If you have ever been to Germany or Ireland you know what I'm talking about. So in these bars everybody smokes. If the habituals can't smoke there anymore the bar goes down. So on this reason they won in court. Now, if they reconsider the law, they will most likely make it even stricter to the extend that any gastronomic business is not allowed to have smoking on their premises anymore, no matter how big or small you are. This would make it pseudo-fair, but that's enough for the lawmakers. So basically it was a shot in the knee. They are now allowed to have smoking but probably not for long. In as soon as a year they will come with perma-ban for all establishments. That sucks.

However, cigar lounges are still exempt like the one in the Savoy Hotel of Berlin, very nice.

Till
 
mugwump said:
Coming from Washington state all I can tell you is that the last thing you want to have happen is a popular vote on this issue. That's how we wound up with the strictest non-smoking laws in the nation. I like to think that if left up to the legislature there might have been some compromise for cigar lounges and such.
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Agreed here in CT. At least the legislators are busy puffing on cigars during their lunch breaks--it keeps them in a calmer frame of mind. :)

Democracy--that's when two wolves and a sheep vote on who is for dinner. :-(

If the public is ignorant on an issue they are dangerous as voters.
 
Coming from Washington state all I can tell you is that the last thing you want to have happen is a popular vote on this issue. That's how we wound up with the strictest non-smoking laws in the nation. I like to think that if left up to the legislature there might have been some compromise for cigar lounges and such.
Click to expand...
This is what happened in Nevada in 2006. The frenzy got so crazy that two competing measures were on the ballot, and the proponents of each campaigned against the other question. The stricter of the two measures passed. Casinos were exempted. The ban prevents any establishment that serves food from allowing smoking. Several neighborhood sports bars have gone under, and some have closed their kitchens to allow smoking. Smoking is also banned in all public buildings. It has been a huge detriment to businesses that were already struggling. Public resources that were better used enforcing standards that truly protected the public are now spent investigating claims that someone lit up a smoke in this establishment or that.
 
I think that imminent domain and smoking bans are both going down the road of government control. When people start allowing government to regulate private activities and properties (whether bad for me or not) you are falling down another slope, much more dangerous than the slope most of us know. :2
 
zipa said:
I don't want to turn this into a debate on politics, but isn't that the reason you vote and elect people into whatever your state-wide body of government is called? I mean, you do it so that they will represent your opinion, and if they don't, well, then you voted for the wrong person...
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That would have been a valid argument if I was actually allowed to vote. I am still a citizen of Germany although I am actually going through the process of citizenship. As of right now I am not allowed to vote so it wasn't my fault...:r
 
Thank God they didn't ban in casinos. Nevada is a state full of cigarette smokers. This crap is crazy.

orca99usa said:
This is what happened in Nevada in 2006. The frenzy got so crazy that two competing measures were on the ballot, and the proponents of each campaigned against the other question. The stricter of the two measures passed. Casinos were exempted. The ban prevents any establishment that serves food from allowing smoking. Several neighborhood sports bars have gone under, and some have closed their kitchens to allow smoking. Smoking is also banned in all public buildings. It has been a huge detriment to businesses that were already struggling. Public resources that were better used enforcing standards that truly protected the public are now spent investigating claims that someone lit up a smoke in this establishment or that.
Click to expand...
 
at least they have some common sense over there. in the u.s. they just keep taking away our rights, sooner or later something is going to happen. at least in illinois you can still smoke in cigar shops
 
a lot of the bars turned into smking clubs (with a 1€ membership) fee once the ban started.
 
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