Aged Frozen vs Un-Frozen Taste Test
Sorry to hear about the :gn beetle problem Seth. I hope the link helps.
Sorry to hear about the :gn beetle problem Seth. I hope the link helps.
How to properly freeze cigars?
- Thread starter Golfman
- Start date
Wouldn't that be the one thing you would want to freeze?
Why? I mean, I understand that it's vintage, but being a tubo it should be in a metal or plastic tube, so the beetles shouldn't be able to get out. If it's a wooden tube, could be the beetles chew through that?
If the cap is left on, you are correct. But I was thinking more in terms of saving the cigar itself - not infesting others.
Ahh, I gotcha
I'm curious to hear what basis there is for that statement. Most tobacco companies these days, even Habanos SA now, freezes their cigars in a commercial freezer before they leave the gate. As such it isn't as big of an issues as it used to be.
Anyway, this is from a cigar manufacturer:
.....
Gentlemen,
Unless you are using a commercial type freezer that can reach temperatures of -40 degrees, freezing your cigars is, well, like using duct tape to patch a garden hose leak. In other words this is a temporary fix. I know this from personal experience and research over the years. Larvae can survive extended periods of exposure to temperatures of 0 degrees just fine. Even with professional fumigation and/or commercial freezing, you are still rolling the dice. It could just be a matter of time and luck. The "safe time frame" really depends on what degree of fumigation (read: GAS) was done to the cigars before they left the factory and also on what type of tobacco you're dealing with; because certain tobaccos are far more prone to infestation. A professional fumigation will only assure a 12-18 month safety window. Sorry, but that's the reality. AS I mentioned, keep in mind that certain tobaccos are more prone to larvae than others, but, that's another subject. The reality is that ALL cigar tobacco veins are home to microscopic beetle larvae, I don't care what cigar brand is involved. I repeat, ALL tobacco has dormant microscopic larvae in the juice of the veins. So, between the time the cigars leave the factory to the time you receive them, chances are that along the way somewhere, the cigars may have been exposed to an unfortunate but optimum temp/humidity level which is the perfect hatching environment. This "perfect" environment is usually created around 75 degrees and 75% humidity. In this environment larvae will awaken, hatch, an now start their quest to burrow out of the cigar in search of water. This may only have affected 1 cigar out of thousand, but if you happen to get THAT cigar, it's enough to cause an outbreak for you. And unfortunately it can take weeks or months before you notice any outwardly signs of an impending infestation. This is a problem that we manufacturers face every single day.
If you follow the following course of action, you will be one step ahead of a possible disaster. Regularly inspect every single cigar in every single box you are keeping in your humidors. The best way to do this is to get a piece of bright white paper and gently tap the foot of all the cigars, one by one, over the paper. If you see microscopic "dust like" particles (not small pieces of tobacco) peppering the paper, you can be absolutely certain that you have an infected cigar, or worse yet, cigars. You can also be certain that you will soon have a major outbreak. This is the first stage of an infestation. This early warning technique will save you a lot of heartache and will give you the ability to immediately pull any infected cigar or cigars, which by the way, are still very smokeable at this point. The other cigars in close proximity to a compromised cigar may or may not have been infected. Usually the infection starts with one cigar because only one beetle has hatched and immediately starts munching on neighboring cigars, thus the appearance of the dreaded "hole". This of course is a best case scenario. However, if cigars of the same batch or in the same box have traveled together (let's say in a box of 20 or 25) chances are that you can expect several, if not all, of those cigars to be affected. Now, the problem has become exponential. So, don't wait until you find those dreaded holes with scores of little bastards having lunch at your the expense of your hard earned money. I hope this helps. Good Luck.
Cheers,
Gael
yourchoice
Chestbeating Pack Leader
A bump if anyone else was looking. Found a beetle hole in an arriving cigar today.
To the freezer they go.InBetweenTheLines
Young Ape
After reading all this, wow, I still have never personally had any problems with beetles or eggs. I've kept some cigars in my humidor for up to 3 years and never had a problem. Maybe they are pre-freezed these days, don't know, but is it really a big deal if I don't freeze them?
My God......I think I will just take my chances. Yikes.
NCRadioMan
More cigars Sanchez!
Yes, they are frozen before they are shipped to retailers but that doesn't stop them all of the time. No, it's not a big deal you don't freeze until you get one. Then you may feel differently. I do it for peice of mind.
yourchoice
Chestbeating Pack Leader
This will actually be the first time I ever froze my sticks, but of the 50 cigars I received today, after close inspection, one stick had larvae holes chewed through and the "tap test" resulted in the powdery residue. I tap tested the others from that group and none seemed infected. Needless to say I chucked one and am freezing 49....well actually 48, I'm smoking one OTT as I type :ss.
longknocker
SilverBack
I actually found a live beetle in my humi a month ago! I've kept the RH at 65, but the temperature crept up to 75 degrees in the summer heat in my house. I then noticed several "beetle holes" in one of my sticks. Put everything including the humi in the freezer after killing the beetle and everything seems to be "OK" now. Be very diligent as to maintaining RH below 70 and, if possible, Temperature below 75! Check your smokes daily!:tu
The RH is not the watch out, at least for beetles, its the temp. I would personally recommend keeping the temp below 70. I keep mine at around 62-64F.
The other thing that many don't consider is that larvae could have hatched in transit. Just because you have a temp controlled humi doesn't mean you're safe from beetles.
It is really NO big deal to freeze. Bag'em, fridge, freezer, fridge back in the humi. Sometimes I skip the last fridge step and never had a problem. Peace of mind is priceless.
Everyone wishes they had insurance after the accident.
yourchoice
Chestbeating Pack Leader
Follow up to my situation...
I shot an e-mail to the vendor the beetle stick came from, genuinely not looking for anything, simply advising them of the problem. A very courteous reply came saying that if, upon further inspection, anything else looked damaged to let them know and return them for an exchange or refund. That's the good news. :tu
Unfortunately, this was part of the reply as well "Typically you will see the bug damage when the cigars are over humidified or in a moist environment."
This is a major retailer. It's a shame they're not better informed.
I think along with the useful info on freezing already provided, it's important to be aware of repair techniques for sticks that have been damaged. A repaired stick can be returned to reasonably useful condition with cigar glue (pectin) and a wrapper from a donor cigar, so all is not lost if you have a modest infestation. I've seen jungle threads covering the techniques involved, but it seems like the one problem of bugs slides handily into the next topic of "repair."
Maybe someone wants to talk about repair, sources of unflavored pectin and the like?
Maybe someone wants to talk about repair, sources of unflavored pectin and the like?
I used to freeze everything, I have a freezer that gets down to -20. Then I moved things up a bit to save me some time and worry.
I bought temperature controlled storage and connected it to a 24 hour UPS system. The UPS stuff was in the house when I bought it so it came for free. The temperature controlled storage can be cheap (vinotemps) or expensive (Aristocrats). I’ve done both and they both have advantages. For my money its worth the piece of mind because I worry what the value of my house will be when I sell, I worry if I’m doing everything I possibly can to make my family comfortable and happy, I even worry that my wife will connect the $$$ that leave the house via ****** and CC to cigars. But I never, and I mean NEVER, actually worry about my cigars themselves. And that lack of worry is worth its weight in gold.
I bought temperature controlled storage and connected it to a 24 hour UPS system. The UPS stuff was in the house when I bought it so it came for free. The temperature controlled storage can be cheap (vinotemps) or expensive (Aristocrats). I’ve done both and they both have advantages. For my money its worth the piece of mind because I worry what the value of my house will be when I sell, I worry if I’m doing everything I possibly can to make my family comfortable and happy, I even worry that my wife will connect the $$$ that leave the house via ****** and CC to cigars. But I never, and I mean NEVER, actually worry about my cigars themselves. And that lack of worry is worth its weight in gold.
As I said in my earlier post, temp control will keep larvae from hatching, but not kill beetles that have hatched. I have temp controlled storage and still freeze. You don't know if packages have sat in hot warehouses or shipping trucks between transit points.
Peace of mind to me is take every precaution I can. Freeze and then temp controlled storage does it for me.
I do freeze all my incoming cigars although I must admit I was not as anal as some of you about it in terms of the procedure used. Still, I never got a single cracked wrapper or dried out cigar. I usually freeze 24-48 hours and have no idea how cold my fridge is.
This works well on the cigars. But the really important thing is to also freeze the boxes. Especially, if you are going from normal humidors in which you didn't use the boxes but kept the frozen cigars directly in the humi to something like a vinotemp where you get temperature control but you use the boxes. You put your frozen (i.e. clean) cigars into their original boxes and put those boxes into your vino or aristocrat humi. Looks great, huh? Well, you better make sure you freeze those boxes before you put the cigars back in there because the boxes carry larvae, too.
Till
This works well on the cigars. But the really important thing is to also freeze the boxes. Especially, if you are going from normal humidors in which you didn't use the boxes but kept the frozen cigars directly in the humi to something like a vinotemp where you get temperature control but you use the boxes. You put your frozen (i.e. clean) cigars into their original boxes and put those boxes into your vino or aristocrat humi. Looks great, huh? Well, you better make sure you freeze those boxes before you put the cigars back in there because the boxes carry larvae, too.
Till