Local B&Ms, is there any point?

You bring up a point that is becoming more and more of an issue as online sales continue to make inroads into what at one time was solely the terratory of the B&Ms.

Just my opinion, but a lot depends on what kind of a markup the B&M wants, or in some cases, needs, to remain in business. Clearly, if the B&M in your case is pricing their wares that much higher just to remain in business, quite simply, they won't be in business much longer. If their pricing is at a level to maximize profits, they are going to have to make some decisions in the very near future.

I think most pipe and cigar smokers have more loyalty to a B&M they have done business with for a substaintial period of time, than the same people would have to a shoe store for example. But that loyalty will only reach so far. There is going to be competition in this industry like any other and the B&M who can't come close to being able to compete with online stores, will I'm afraid, fall by the wayside in the not to distant future.

Online stores have had the effect of actually bringing prices down on many items, and it can be expected that a good many smokers are naturally going to take advantage of the savings. As much as I hate to see the small B&M disappear from the scene, they are going to have to offer the smoker value. All of that "value" does not have to be in the form of price, but I seriously doubt that many smoker's would pay the extra 50.00 as you mention in your case.

Online purchasing is going to continue to grow in all retail markets, and tobacco products and accessories are ideal to promote online. As I stated above, I will hate to see them go, but if the B&M is not going use the most profitable marketing techniques that are being used by his competitors, I'm of the opinion that we will see fewer and fewer strickly B&M businesses able to "make a go of it" in the future.:2

F. Prefect
 
The Bruce said:
Sure, but consider that most Online retailers have local shops and a lot of local shops sell online because it's a pretty much a free second store front. I understand the need to stay in business. But I also don't understand why people are so willing to pay $50 more per box which is a 10% off the per single price.

If these stores are staying in business by selling singles (which it seems to be the case) then why wouldn't a box be heavily discounted? If you are going to buy a single and sit in the store to smoke it then the singles price should reflect this. Since you most likely won’t sit in the B&M and smoke the entire box the box price should be discounted more than 10%.

For the most part what I am getting from people who are willing to pay the markup is:

1. They only buy singles so the hit is not too bad and they enjoy hanging out there.
2. They are willing to pay ~$50 more a box to subsidize the people who only buy singles and they enjoy hanging out.

Seems to me that the box buyers are a bunch of good guys/gals! :ss
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It's gotta be your B&M.

I go to the same one that Cigar no Baka goes to and the place/atmosphere/people are worth the little bit that it's over on price v. the online stores. Plus, the prices are NOT +$50/box where we go. And, if you buy a box, he gives a 10% discount.

Are there other B&Ms in the area?
 
12stones said:
Are there other B&Ms in the area?
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Yeah, but they are Head Shops. They sell bong. . .errrr . . . glass tobacco pipes. I try to stay clear of those places. Oh and their humis suck. The shop I go to has great staff and a good humidor. I am just having trouble justifying the extra price I pay. Over the last two months I've spend $200 extra buying three boxes of cigars and an assortment of singles. It just makes no sense to me to pay that much more with the volume I am buying.
 
The Bruce said:
Yeah, but they are Head Shops. They sell bong. . .errrr . . . glass tobacco pipes. I try to stay clear of those places. Oh and their humis suck. The shop I go to has great staff and a good humidor. I am just having trouble justifying the extra price I pay. Over the last two months I've spend $200 extra buying three boxes of cigars and an assortment of singles. It just makes no sense to me to pay that much more with the volume I am buying.
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I think you've answered your own question then. It seems like they've got the local market and are able to justify their prices for most. If I were you and didn't want to keep throwing the money when I'm looking for cheaper costs, I'd go somewhere else (online).
 
I've been to the Anthony's on Oracle as I live up north. Anyway, their prices are high but I only go there to try singles. Boxes are from the Internet or bundles from my friend.
 
I have actually grown very fond of my local B&M. Not only does he give me great recommendations, he also passes savings on to me when he can.

He knows that if he can’t get me something or if the price is that much better – I’m headed to the web. That is just the way it is.

But when I want singles, or to get some advice, or to get away for a while – that is one of my favorite haunts.

Plus, he has a gigantic humidor – and walking along in a giant humi, looking at all the little troopers in a row and thinking about smoking is worth the price. I’d just die if he went out of business.

What I would do if I were you is negotiate – remember – you control the purchase – if the price is too high – don’t buy. He should respect that.
 
Paying a $50 markup on a $100-$150 box of cigars is insane. I'm all for helping out the local B&M, but somewhere the end has to justify the means.

Now Serious Cigars in Houston, their prices are excellent and once I complete my move to Houston, they will definately have a chance at ALL my business. I love supporting local shops, but if they are unable to be in the "ballpark" then online ordering is the only way to go.

At least that's my opinion.
 
Keep in mind also, that I suspect most of the people on this forum smoke cigars on a regular basis, at least 3-4/week, with many smoking 1-2/day. As such, we tend to buy boxes, rather than singles, and get less monetary value from the B&M. I still go to three different B&Ms.

Near work, because it gives me a good break on some days, and they also get in really good stuff I can't or won't buy elsewhere. I buy most of my Padron Annis and other super-premium smokes here. A benefit of my business is that i was able to snag a box of Anejo 55s when they came out. That is the benefit of a B&M.

The two near my house, one I go becuase I like chatting with the guy who owns it. I always stay for at least 15-20 minutes for just that purpose, even though he doesn't have a lounge space. I've bought a couple boxes from him, but I mostly buy singles of stuff I want to try.

The other near my house is a cigar bar, so gets my business when I go out on the weekends, so nice to be able to sit back, light up a stogie and have a scotch inside. I only buy stuff to smoke when I am there.
 
well when i need to buy boxes i'll get em online, but when i want singles i go to the shop, there's just nothing like browsing throught a humidor and finding a couple sticks on the bottom of the bix with a nice tooth, or even plume. and there's some things that you can get at a shop you just can't get online: opus's, padrone anny's stuff like that
 
Papichulo said:
B&Ms are for test driving.
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Well said. I love dropping by the B&M and seeing what is new. For 2 to 3 times the price I pay on the internet I can sample a new smoke. If it sucks then it's money well spent since I won't opt for a whole box.
I live in Massachusetts, 30% tax plus the 5% sales tax. The B&M just cannot compete.
I gotta tell you what really frosts me about B&Ms in my area. I've been smoking cigars forever. When these two shops openned they had about 15 boxes of cigars each. I was one of the first frequent customers. Now these shops have hundreds of boxes and do a great business. Never, never have I ever gotten a free smoke from these two shops.
I travel around the country and have visited hundreds of cigar stores and have received loads of free cigars. I think there is some sort of yankee tightass thrift thing going on.:2
What really frosts me is when I tell the locals what cigars they can expect from the Fuente holiday shipments or what new cigars are being released, because I do my homework and care, but they are content to wait for the UPS truck, get out the price gun, and charge people who know no better a small fortune.:sb

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain! He's just a little bitter.
Don't get me wrong, I really really want to buy from the guys down the street, but how can I? It's like when the full service gas station has gas for 4 bucks a gallon, but they pump it for you!!!! Are you gonna buy it? No way!!
Thanks for letting me rant, I feel much better.:tg
 
El Gato, so we meet :r All but this forum and one other my handle is "El Gato" and I was dissappointed someone beat me to it...

Back to business, I agree with you. I cannot afford to purchase a box of something for a test drive and I love to window shop. B&Ms give me that opportunity. Cheers
 
I'm all for supporting the local shops in most of my hobbies, but when it comes to cigars, I only purchase a stick here and there. The B&M's around here just charge way too much!

Example:
A box of 20 Partagas Black Maximo tubes cost about $74 + shipping from several online retailers. I've been able to buy singles from an online shop for a little under $6. My local B&M charges $11 for a single and knocks off 20% for a box...which comes out to about $176.

Call me crazy, but why not lower prices to something at least reasonable for a B&M and at least get constant repeat business. I'd say I'd be willing to pay maybe around $100 for a box which would be at least 30% more than an online retailer to support the local guy. I mean, they don't even try to compete with other local shops.
 
I still feel there is a place for B&Ms. Many cigar lovers never make it to a websites like CS and many people do not purchase cigars via the inernet. There is place for cigar lovers at B&Ms and people like us who like to test drive sticks and/or window shop. Occassionally you can pick up a deal at a B&M. Usally at a longstanding B&M who have been in business for years and have some great price points. :ss
 
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Papichulo said:
I still feel there is a place for B&Ms. Many cigar lovers never make it to a websites like CS and many people do not purchase cigars via the inernet. There is place for cigar lovers at B&Ms and people like us who like to test drive sticks and/or window shop. Occassionally you can pick up a deal at a B&M. Usally at a longstanding B&M who has been in business for years and has great price points. :ss
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Agreed. Most reputable B&M's that I know took a tough storm to get where they are. Like most small businesses it takes a few years of $$$ to get to a status of competing and keeping their prices respectable.
 
I too like to hang at my local b&m excellent service nice guys have known the owner for a decade etc. Somtimes I buy online well mostly but also I buy from him mostly because he deserves my biz. After knowing him casually for years I said (yet of course politely) the taxes in NY are kinda high and he really understood. I am also sure that he understood that if he and his staff were not so cool I wouldn't buy at all and when the day come when I am a millionare I'll buy all of my stogies from him. jm .02
 
i have to ask, why do people get so pissed off when they don't get free sticks or a discount or something like that at a B&M. Do you expect discounts or free things at walmart or the gas station?
 
The Bruce said:
Here in Tucson I go to Anthony's Cigar Emporium. They have a nice place to sit and smoke and a very courtious, friendly and knowledgable staff. Great guys! I buy boxes from them fairly regularly and singles as well. Up to this point I've been eating the $50 to $60 extra it costs me to buy from them vs. getting the cigars online. I have been glad to eat it just to keep a local store working.

But should I be having to pay so much more? I've heard people say that they get better deals from thier local B&M than the public gets. Now I don't hang out there, but I do buy quite a bit from them. All I get is 10% off the per stick price. Is this out of line? If it's not then I see no reason to buy in town. I get all the advice I need here, I can break boxes up here to create samplers. Why pay $50 more a box?

My issue is not with the store or the staff. I am just pondering the need for me to pay $50 more per box.

What do you think?

Thanks,

Erik
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Tyler's a great guy at Anthony's, and there are some interesting characters to herf with at the Oracle store at most any time of the day. I wish there was as good of a B & M close to me as Anthony's, I would give them as much business as I could, especially on singles. The benefits of a good B & M is that when you cultivate a relationship with them, you are in a position to get in on specials, and have a leg up on special cigars that may come in. Plus, they are often good places to relax, talk to other smokers, try some singles here and there. While I purchase a majority of my cigars on line, I still buy sticks from local B&Ms at least once a month.

As for Anthony's, I was able to snag the A. Fuentes 2006 Holiday Sampler plus the Don Carlos Sampler from them before Christmas, plus was able to get some decent prices on Davidoff 100 anni sticks. I also understand that their supplier has kept them in a fairly steady stream of Ashton EVS, and Anthony's has no problem selling you a whole box of cigars, be they Anejos, Opus, or simpler sticks like Toranos. The benefit of cultivating a B&M is that when they know you, you have a much better chance of walking out of the store with a box of cigars you might not be able to find in quantity any where else!
 
I like the experience of going to my local B & M's. Who doesn't love the smell of a walk in humidor or the sight of all those stogies on the wall. I stop in and buy singles mostly and I bought my humi and lighter from 'em too. But I will admit to buying way more cigars online. I'm sorry but it's not just the prices....I like the convenience of buying stogies in my underwear while smoking in my own house. Nothing like it! And the feeling when you get a steal on the Devil Site....it's a whole other experience, a game if you will, and it's fun outside of just getting a great deal. So I'll continue to pick up singles and odds and ends at my locals because I know it's important to buy local and support the little guy. But I'm not going to get scalped just so someone else can eat.
 
My B&M is inside a truck stop in a little one horse town. There are NO aficianados employed there just your typical truck stop desk clerks. The selection is outstanding and the prices are either great or over the top. I don't understand why someone thought this little town could support a B&M. Maybe I'm stereotyping but I find it hard to believe OTR truckdrivers would give a hoot about premium cigars.NO Offense intended to the truckers of our nation. The shop is called Elite Cigars and I think they have several shops around the Houston area.......I visit 3 or more times a week and every time I wonder when the other shoe is going to drop and they close up shop. Until then I'm living Big Time in my little TSBM (Truck Stop Brick and Mortar)!:D
 
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