Local B&Ms, is there any point?

[F. Prefect]

One other "problem" that the B&Ms are up against when competing with online businesses is sales tax, or the lack thereof, that is paid when a buyer purchases from a company out of state. I have an unusually high sales tax rate of 7 3/4%, and with shipping cost making up a very small percentage(sometimes none at all) of the total purchase price of premium cigars and pipes, the online dealer becomes all the more attractive.:2

F. Prefect

 

[The Bruce]

i have to ask, why do people get so pissed off when they don't get free sticks or a discount or something like that at a B&M. Do you expect discounts or free things at walmart or the gas station?

At walmart the price is always low. At my gas station I get a discount per gallon bases on what I buy in the store. So, what can't a B&M do that?

Tyler's a great guy at Anthony's, and there are some interesting characters to herf with at the Oracle store at most any time of the day.

Sure they guys and gals there are great, I agree. I am recognized when I go there and I go quite often. Maybe I'll just have to buy singles from them and get my Boxes online. Although we would be much better off if they would be more competitive. This turns out to be a lose-lose situation. I lose the convenience of getting my smokes now, and they lose money since I wont buy as many cigars from them (much less in fact). The best solution is for me to get a box of cigars for ~$20 more than from an online store so that I get my cigars and they get more money. A win-win situation. That is all I am after. Why is this not happening?

 

[cigar no baka]

Another reason I really don't want to get too dependent on the internet for cigars is that the government is already sniffing around the online sales of tobacco due to the possibility of kids getting their hands on such evil stuff.

Government pressure is ever present on UPS, Fedex and their competitors to voluntarily stop shipping tobacco products to residences. I expect to see legislation soon that will doom online buying of tobacco.

 

[F. Prefect]

Another reason I really don't want to get too dependent on the internet for cigars is that the government is already sniffing around the online sales of tobacco due to the possibility of kids getting their hands on such evil stuff.

Government pressure is ever present on UPS, Fedex and their competitors to voluntarily stop shipping tobacco products to residences. I expect to see legislation soon that will doom online buying of tobacco.

I hopefully will never become "dependent" upon online sources for cigars, pipe tobacco etc. I have had a good relationship with one B&M for several years who knows I buy online and on ocassion will even question me about what prices I have noticed online regarding a particular item. He sells online as well but IF I wanted to shop around I could almost always best his prices.

Most of my online purchases are more of the spur of the moment variety, ie I may receive an email from an online seller with a special on an item I regularly smoke, but may not need at the moment, but the lower price is enough to intice a purchase. If I'm actually in need of an item, I will usually go to the B&M's website (he's 30 miles away) and purchase it without doing any shopping around. I see no reason our relationship will change in the future.

But as you suggest, if a smoker was totally dependent on out of state (no sales tax) sources and a law was suddenly passed changing all this, it might take him several months to build a relationship with a B&M he can depend on to give him the "best pricing" he normally reserves for longtime regular customers.:ss

F. Prefect

 

[madurofan]

Another reason I really don't want to get too dependent on the internet for cigars is that the government is already sniffing around the online sales of tobacco due to the possibility of kids getting their hands on such evil stuff.

Government pressure is ever present on UPS, Fedex and their competitors to voluntarily stop shipping tobacco products to residences. I expect to see legislation soon that will doom online buying of tobacco.

Tip of the iceburg: http://rtda.org/individualstateshippingregulations.pdf

 

[The Bruce]

I don't mind paying the Tobacco Tax. I've requested the forms to file for my state. But there are none and the Revenue people were really confused as to why I was calling. The Tobacco Tax is not the reason the price is so much higher in my case.

I just discovered and found another B&M. I went there today, thier prices are just as out of line as the other. I asked for a better deal, they said it's 10% off the stick price unless you are a police, or military when it becomes 20%. It seems to me the B&Ms rely on the singles sales. So I have decided that I will only buy singles from them from now on. A box of Punch Gran Puro at this place was $122 dollars after Tobacco Tax and not including sales tax. I can get it online for $70. Thats $52 dollars diffence. It makes no sense to buy a box from the B&M. I did buy a couple of sticks. I guess that is their model.

 

[F. Prefect]

I don't mind paying the Tobacco Tax. I've requested the forms to file for my state. But there are none and the Revenue people were really confused as to why I was calling. The Tobacco Tax is not the reason the price is so much higher in my case.

I just discovered and found another B&M. I went there today, thier prices are just as out of line as the other. I asked for a better deal, they said it's 10% off the stick price unless you are a police, or military when it becomes 20%. It seems to me the B&Ms rely on the singles sales. So I have decided that I will only buy singles from them from now on. A box of Punch Gran Puro at this place was $122 dollars after Tobacco Tax and not including sales tax. I can get it online for $70. Thats $52 dollars diffence. It makes no sense to buy a box from the B&M. I did buy a couple of sticks. I guess that is their model.

I only mentioned taxes (sales taxes) because of the situation that exists in the county in which I reside. 7.87% sales:c tax. Fortunately the B&M I use is in another county with sales taxes of only about 4.5%. But at 7.87%, buying online will always cover the shipping and then some, and makes it very difficult for me to justify buying anything of significance from a B&M in my own county and have almost 8% tacked on to everything I purchase.

I have a feeling that this "no sales tax if purchased from an out of state vendor" is not going to last forever, but I'm taking advantage of it while it lasts on purchases not made with my B&M in the neighboring county charging only 4.5% sales tax.

F. Prefect

 

[discdog]

I don't mind paying the Tobacco Tax. I've requested the forms to file for my state. But there are none and the Revenue people were really confused as to why I was calling. The Tobacco Tax is not the reason the price is so much higher in my case.

I just discovered and found another B&M. I went there today, thier prices are just as out of line as the other. I asked for a better deal, they said it's 10% off the stick price unless you are a police, or military when it becomes 20%. It seems to me the B&Ms rely on the singles sales. So I have decided that I will only buy singles from them from now on. A box of Punch Gran Puro at this place was $122 dollars after Tobacco Tax and not including sales tax. I can get it online for $70. Thats $52 dollars diffence. It makes no sense to buy a box from the B&M. I did buy a couple of sticks. I guess that is their model.

Are you saying you've never been in there before, asked for a discount greater than 10%, and they wouldn't give it to you? What if you buy multiple boxes? I worked up to the deal I have, 10% was the starting point, then it went to 20%. Now I pretty much pay internet less 10%. Unless it is something they just can't get, I won't order online again. They even call me when something new comes in and I may get the only box they have. Or I may just place an order with their stock.But, I had to work up to that.

 

[F. Prefect]

Are you saying you've never been in there before, asked for a discount greater than 10%, and they wouldn't give it to you? What if you buy multiple boxes? I worked up to the deal I have, 10% was the starting point, then it went to 20%. Now I pretty much pay internet less 10%. Unless it is something they just can't get, I won't order online again. They even call me when something new comes in and I may get the only box they have. Or I may just place an order with their stock.But, I had to work up to that.

Cigars are no different than any other product and a customer who regularly places large orders is going to get the best pricing. But if you have a B&M selling at a 10% discount to JR or pipesandcigars.com, you need to make sure he has something very nice under his Christmas tree. Please don't take that the wrong way, but those prices are 'very' good and doubt few would be willing to match, and to get those prices, as you suggest, will take some time and many orders. I'd have to say you have "one heck of a good source.":ss

F. Prefect

 

[TMoneYNYY]

Personally, I like to support my B&M's because they usually provide a place to sit and relax... also, since I don't have a massive walk-in humidor, it's nice to go in there every once-in-a-while. I think the main purpose they serve is to sell singles... if you buy from a site, they have a better deal by the box, but singles, especially after s&h, cost just as much... so, I just shop at B&M's when I need to, and if I HAVE to get a box, I'll just go to a site.

 

[discdog]

Cigars are no different than any other product and a customer who regularly places large orders is going to get the best pricing. But if you have a B&M selling at a 10% discount to JR or pipesandcigars.com, you need to make sure he has something very nice under his Christmas tree. Please don't take that the wrong way, but those prices are 'very' good and doubt few would be willing to match, and to get those prices, as you suggest, will take some time and many orders. I'd have to say you have "one heck of a good source.":ss

F. Prefect

You are quite correct in the fact that I have a couple of fantastic sources. And I didn't read anything that could be construed as offensive. You just stated an obvious point in my post. Yes, I make a lot of box purchases, but along with paying there kids way through college, I have made some very awesome friends. If there is a way I can get what I want cheaper, they will tell me, I can't buy it for that, so I may order for myself and them. There are some online companies who use loss leaders and actually sell below wholesale just to get our attention, then try to make it up in other sales.
And you are also correct that they all recieved a nice smokable gift from Santa Discdog. Most of us forget that alot of these guys are business owners first and cigar smokers second. I always pay attention to what the owners smoke. If they are constantly going for the "good stuff", you are the one paying for it. If I go to a shop a couple of times and always see an Anni or any of the more expensive cigars burning, I will not even attempt to buy boxes from them. It's just something I look for.

 

[F. Prefect]

You are quite correct in the fact that I have a couple of fantastic sources. And I didn't read anything that could be construed as offensive. You just stated an obvious point in my post. Yes, I make a lot of box purchases, but along with paying there kids way through college, I have made some very awesome friends. If there is a way I can get what I want cheaper, they will tell me, I can't buy it for that, so I may order for myself and them. There are some online companies who use loss leaders and actually sell below wholesale just to get our attention, then try to make it up in other sales.
And you are also correct that they all recieved a nice smokable gift from Santa Discdog. Most of us forget that alot of these guys are business owners first and cigar smokers second. I always pay attention to what the owners smoke. If they are constantly going for the "good stuff", you are the one paying for it. If I go to a shop a couple of times and always see an Anni or any of the more expensive cigars burning, I will not even attempt to buy boxes from them. It's just something I look for.

This thing is getting large, best cut back on the quotes. I have no disagreement with anything you stated in either post, I just wish I had a B&M who would offer that kind of a discount. But as you point out, you have dropped a 'few' bucks with the guy over the years to say the least, and the markup on most cigars should allow him to offer such discounts and you are lucky to have such a good working relationship with the dealer. I smoke a pipe (11 years) more than cigars (only about a year smoking handmades) so I'm still a novice. Most of my box or bundle purchases are in the 2.00-3.50 range, but almost all come from internet sources. I just don't as of yet have a B&M who is willing to compete (in most cases he doesn't even have the item in stock anyway) with large onlines like JRs. Hopefully someday. In the meantime I've got a bit of learning to do and am glad I found this as there appear to be many veterans such as yourself who are very willing to help the newer cigar smokers. Just got a new espresso machine in about 30 min ago, and as always am attempting to make it work without even peeking at the instructions. If you notice a loud noise, it's probably me.

F. Prefect

 

[Demented]

What do you think?

I would say yes.

2 or 3 states have passed laws that forbid shipping of tobacco products from outside the state, we can bet this is only the beginning.

Living in California prices are nearly double the MSRP, the cost buying boxes is prohibitive so I make large purchase online to save money.

But for trying new cigars I prefer being able to walk into the humidor and select the sticks I want. And it’s nice having somewhere outside my home to smoke and talk with other cigar smokers.

 

[doctorcue]

Living in California prices are nearly double the MSRP, the cost buying boxes is prohibitive so I make large purchase online to save money.

But for trying new cigars I prefer being able to walk into the humidor and select the sticks I want. And it’s nice having somewhere outside my home to smoke and talk with other cigar smokers.

Here here! Preach on brotha!

 

[discdog]

F. Prefect it's kinda funny you brought up the price point you did. When I first got started I was learning everything on my own. It never even occurred to me that there were cigar shops around as I got started by accident. I stopped in a JR's in NC where I met Lew (didn't know he was famous) & spent a couple of hours with him, he showed me how to cut, light, smoke, ash, hell, the only thing he didn't do is kick me in the arse to get my lungs going. But where he got me involved was his ability to tell stories. I could have listened to him for days.
Then I started getting on the net & found a guy whose Holy Grail was any cigar under a buck and he listed sites every week. Man, I was in heaven! Before I knew what was happening, I had two thousand of the most god awful sticks know to man. Calling most any of these things dog rockets would insult the dog.
Then I found my first true CigarBB, I won't say who, but I didn't care for the attitude, so I just lurked and soaked up as much as I could. While reading the archieves, I came across a couple of places that these individuals didn't like so I checked them out. Best move I ever made. I should have known if I didn't like them, I'd love these other places, and that's where I'm at now.
Unfortunately, with my new found knoweledge, came a real shock to the checkbook. lol But boy have I discovered a whole new world.

 

[F. Prefect]

F. Prefect it's kinda funny you brought up the price point you did. When I first got started I was learning everything on my own. It never even occurred to me that there were cigar shops around as I got started by accident. I stopped in a JR's in NC where I met Lew (didn't know he was famous) & spent a couple of hours with him, he showed me how to cut, light, smoke, ash, hell, the only thing he didn't do is kick me in the arse to get my lungs going. But where he got me involved was his ability to tell stories. I could have listened to him for days.
Then I started getting on the net & found a guy whose Holy Grail was any cigar under a buck and he listed sites every week. Man, I was in heaven! Before I knew what was happening, I had two thousand of the most god awful sticks know to man. Calling most any of these things dog rockets would insult the dog.
Then I found my first true CigarBB, I won't say who, but I didn't care for the attitude, so I just lurked and soaked up as much as I could. While reading the archieves, I came across a couple of places that these individuals didn't like so I checked them out. Best move I ever made. I should have known if I didn't like them, I'd love these other places, and that's where I'm at now.
Unfortunately, with my new found knoweledge, came a real shock to the checkbook. lol But boy have I discovered a whole new world.

I hear you man. Bought a few of those myself.:tpd: And I suspect most of us did at one time or another. Nothing like you've think you've discovered the greatest cigar in the world for under a buck and can't wait to post it. But I've found it's usually a good idea to smoke one before doing any premature boasting.

I've heard Lew is a hell of nice guy and I've found his businesses to be first rate. As close as I can come is getting to chat on the phone with Craig and Patty Tarler of Cornell and Diehl. They love to talk tobacco.

I really doubt you can get around price. Your not going to get something for nothing and that applies big time when purchasing handmade cigars. I have on occassion found a cigar that wasn't half bad for between 1.25 and 2.00, but anything under that I look at as being suspect. When you can find them, and you know they are legitimate, sometimes you can pick up some sticks make by apprentices at some of the better know factories. I recently found some smokes that when I first found them were actually being sold as Davidoff tubos. They came in bundles of 9 and 16 cigars and all that was printed on the aluminum tubes was the size, Made in the Dominican Republic, and a bar code. Cost? Anywhere from 2.00 to 2.50 and I have purchased some from 2 different online shops, pipeandcigars.com and I believe Cup o Joes. IMHO, very good cigars for the money. As far as the more expensive sticks, I might some singles on occassion, but I really can't see spending over 10 bucks for a good cigar, but that only my opinion. If others see value in a 20.00 stick, I say go for it.

You might try puttin' some of those rockets in the freezer for 6 months or so and then nuke em and see what happens. It can't hurt. Only kidding, that might get to be a bit messy in the ole microwave and might turn the wife further still against your cigar hobby and you don't want that.:ss

F. Prefect