Marketing of Cuban named NC's in other countires???

D

DennisP

Lowland Gorilla
I'm curious as to if the NCs with Cuban names (ie Cohiba, Montecristo, every other brand) are sold in other countries and if so under what names? I assume that Cuba holds the TM, Copyright, or whatever other countries are using.
 
DennisP said:
I'm curious as to if the NCs with Cuban names (ie Cohiba, Montecristo, every other brand) are sold in other countries and if so under what names? I assume that Cuba holds the TM, Copyright, or whatever other countries are using.
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Taken from Wikipedia, which has a good article on this:

Wikipedia said:
With the forced nationalization of the tobacco industry along with all other businesses and its assets on the island following the Cuban Revolution, many cigar makers fled the island and began growing tobacco with Cuban smuggled seed in places such as the Dominican Republic and Honduras, taking the brand names of their cigars with them. A similar story took place with other Cuban businesses (small and big) who were able to translate to other nations; perhaps, most noticeable the Bacardi family and Bacardi rums, originally recognized as a Cuban rum now establish in Puerto Rico.

Because of the precarious legal and trademark situations created by Cuba's communist government and a US embargo against all Cuban goods, there are many brand names that are present on both Cuban and non-Cuban cigars (as with rums), though the non-Cuban varieties of such cigars as Hoyo de Monterrey or Montecristo cannot usually be sold under those names in foreign markets where Cuba is considered to own the trademark. To circumvent this, most non-Cuban cigar manufacturers simply sell their cigars under different names for the foreign market while retainning the old pre-Revolution name in the US market. But there has been heated debate between Habanos SA and other cigar manufacturers about using the brand names of Cuban cigars created after the Revolution in the US market, Cohiba being one of those brand names.

In the 1990's, US-based cigar manufacturer General Cigar Company, Inc. began mass-marketing a Dominican-made cigar under the name of "Cohiba" for the US market.

General Cigar first registered the Cohiba name in the United States in 1978 and claims to have sold cigars under the Cohiba name in the US in limited quantities through the 1980's until its current incarnation with the so-called "Red Dot" Cohiba (named for the red dot in the middle of the "O" in "Cohiba" on its bands and boxes) in 1997. Cubatabaco (the government-run company in charge of cigars, half-owner of Habanos SA, along with Altadis SA) promptly began a campaign to have General Cigar's trademark revoked and numerous legal battles ensued that were partly resolved on 19 June 2006, when the U. S. Supreme Court denied Cubatabco's petition. As a result, the February 2005 decision of the U. S. 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals (Docket #04-2527), which confirmed General Cigar Company’s exclusive ownership of the COHIBA® trademark in the United States, is final and is law of the case. The General Cigar-made Cohiba cigars now have a disclaimer on boxes that they are not affiliated in any way with the Cuban brand.

However, the United States government, in an amicus curiae brief filed in the Supreme Court, acknowledged that Cubatabaco could request U.S. government permission for judicial protection of the brand from the Department of the Treasury's Office of Foreign Assets Control, which administers the U.S. blockade. Cubatabaco has stated that they intend to pursue this course of action.
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Essentially what happened is, as long as the embargo is in place, Cuba cannot trademark or copyright anything regarding a product in the US. Thus, other companies are allowed to take up the brand name and logos, although now all are required to put on the box that they are not affiliated with Cubatabaco in any way. The government filed the brief (means "friend of the court") that says they can request other departments to possibly protect them. I'm interested to see where that goes.

Some more research dug up that, as of now, the US Government has agreed that, in the event the embargo is lifted, Cubatabaco will immediately receive ownership rights to their trademarks and brand names, and due protection to them.
 
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Thanks for the article. I had read about the Cohiba lawsuit and much of the other stuff, but hadn't seen that the names are changed in other countries.

So, does anyone know and/or care about the names being used in other countries?
 
haven't seen NC cohibas, montecristos, Partagas or any others here in Finland. All of those are Habanos here...

Miker
 
It is my general opinion that the US Government followed its embargo stance perfectly. Do I agree with it? Not really.

I think that the ban should still offer legal protection to the companies, so that no one can use the name or logos here stateside without at least paying royalties to Cubatabaco.
 
I think a large number of consumers believe that they are buying from the same company that manufactures in multiple countries to sell in the USA. I know I used to believe this.

I hate the fact that Altadis and General Cigar are profitting off names made popular by other companies. Cohiba bothers me the most as at least many of the others had workers from the factories that left Cuba.

It will be interesting with the embargo ends to see how Cubans will have to market in the USA. I would have to think they had trademarks here before the embargo, although I only know a little about the laws.
 
DennisP said:
I think a large number of consumers believe that they are buying from the same company that manufactures in multiple countries to sell in the USA. I know I used to believe this.

I hate the fact that Altadis and General Cigar are profitting off names made popular by other companies. Cohiba bothers me the most as at least many of the others had workers from the factories that left Cuba.

It will be interesting with the embargo ends to see how Cubans will have to market in the USA. I would have to think they had trademarks here before the embargo, although I only know a little about the laws.
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If the political situation in Cuba doesn't drastically change, I don't think we'll see an end to the embargo...at least not in my lifetime, which still has a good 40 years left on it at least. As a matter of fact, anything short of the threat to invade the US probably won't even make the politicians sneeze.
 
Nobody who could choose would touch one of those things. They're crappy cigars for US consumption only. Outside the US, with a very few exceptions, the only cigars you'll find for sale were made in Cuba.
 
Silound said:
Essentially what happened is, as long as the embargo is in place, Cuba cannot trademark or copyright anything regarding a product in the US. Thus, other companies are allowed to take up the brand name and logos, although now all are required to put on the box that they are not affiliated with Cubatabaco
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I don't know where you're getting that information, but it is simply incorrect. The Cuban Asset Control Regulations specifically allow Cuban entities to register patents, trademarks, and copyrights in the United States.

31 C.F.R. § 515.527(a)(1): "Transactions related to the registration and renewal in the United States Patent and Trademark Office or the United States Copyright Office of patents, trademarks, and copyrights in which the Government of Cuba or a Cuban national has an interest are authorized."

Some more research dug up that, as of now, the US Government has agreed that, in the event the embargo is lifted, Cubatabaco will immediately receive ownership rights to their trademarks and brand names, and due protection to them.
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What does this mean and where did you read it? Cubatabaco already has protection as to any mark it owns.
 
croatan said:
I don't know where you're getting that information, but it is simply incorrect. The Cuban Asset Control Regulations specifically allow Cuban entities to register patents, trademarks, and copyrights in the United States.

31 C.F.R. § 515.527(a)(1): "Transactions related to the registration and renewal in the United States Patent and Trademark Office or the United States Copyright Office of patents, trademarks, and copyrights in which the Government of Cuba or a Cuban national has an interest are authorized."


What does this mean and where did you read it? Cubatabaco already has protection as to any mark it owns.
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Didn't the 2005 case specifically state than General Cigar owned the trademark to Cohiba?
 
DennisP said:
Didn't the 2005 case specifically state than General Cigar owned the trademark to Cohiba?
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Yes. However, in that case, General Cigar registered the COHIBA mark in the United States. The 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals basically held that canceling that registration would be tantamount to a transfer of property, which would be in violation of the embargo--personally, I find their reasoning flawed, but that's a different story. Had Cubatabaco registered the mark when they should have, there never would have been an issue in the first place.
 
croatan said:
Yes. However, in that case, General Cigar registered the COHIBA mark in the United States. The 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals basically held that canceling that registration would be tantamount to a transfer of property, which would be in violation of the embargo--personally, I find their reasoning flawed, but that's a different story. Had Cubatabaco registered the mark when they should have, there never would have been an issue in the first place.
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OK, so can you help me understand the use of the other brands, ie Montecristo, Partagas, etc?
 
DennisP said:
OK, so can you help me understand the use of the other brands, ie Montecristo, Partagas, etc?
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Sure.

We'll take Partagas as an example. The Partagas mark was registered in 1947 by the Cuban company of Cifuentes, Pega & Compania. Ramon Cifuentes, who owned the company (and, as far as the US was concerned, the mark), fled Cuba in 1961, settling in the United States (he later moved to the DR). He then forged an alliance with General Cigar and, in 1975, Cifuentes y Compania (by Ramon Cifuentes Toriello) assigned the trademark to General Cigar Co.

In other countries, Cubatabaco is recognized as the owner of the mark based on its purported post-nationalization ownership of the old Cuban company.

So, in the US, General Cigar has the exclusive rights to market a cigar called Partagas. Pretty much everywhere else, Cubatabaco has that exclusive right.

To my knowledge, the cigars you know in the US as "Partagas" are not sold elsewhere under a different name. They are simply not sold anywhere except for the US. (And why would they be? Everywhere else, people can get Cubans :).)

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As of 9/06, the last time I did research on the matter, USPTO listed the following companies as the record owners of the trademarks listed below their names:

General Cigar Co., Inc. (USA):

* Belinda
* Bolivar
* Cohiba
* El Rey del Mundo
* Hoyo de Monterrey
* La Flor de Cano
* Partagas
* Punch
* Rafael Gonzalez
* Ramon Allones
* Sancho Panza


Max Rohr, Inc. (USA):

* Cabanas
* Gispert
* Juan Lopez
* La Corona
* Quintero
* Romeo y Julieta
* Saint Luis Rey
* Trinidad


Habanos S.A. (Cuba):

* Cuaba
* Quai d’Orsay
* Vegas Robaina
* Vegueros


Cuban Cigar Brands N.V. (Netherlands Antilles):

* H. Upmann
* Montecristo (and Monte Cristo)
* Por Larranaga


Intermatch Sweden AB (Sweden):

* La Gloria Cubana
* Los Statos de Luxe


Fuente Cigar Ltd. (DR):

* Diplomaticos


Manufactura de Tabacos (Matasa) S.A. (Panama):

* Fonseca


Jose L. Piedra Cigars, Inc. (USA):

* Jose L. Piedra


Lignum-2, Inc. (USA):

* Troya


Abandoned:

* San Cristobal de la Habana


Note: Tabacalara S.A. bought Max Rohr on February 12, 1998. The Tabacalera S.A. / Consolidated Cigar merger into Altadis was completed in December of 1999. Altadis also owns Cuban Cigar Brands N.V. and purchased a 50% stake in Habanos S.A. in September 2000. So, as of today, Habanos S.A. and Altadis control roughly half of the Cuban cigar brand trademarks in the United States.
 
No retailer is going to want to pay exorbitant fees only to provide duplicate facings with differing countries of origin. Perhaps some tatuaje and such, but it makes no sense to have 2 RyJ facings, 2 Cohiba facings, etc. for a choice that noone is going to care about anyway, since Cubans are the defacto world standard. Not because non-cubans are unacceptable, as the wannabe-elites would have you think; more like chronology and attrition (cigars and cigar memory far pre-dates Kennedy.)
 
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no wait the RYJ from Cuba has the red... no that's the USA one.... no wait..... AHH to hell with it give me a lighter.

GREAT thread Dennis I have wondered this for a bit myself.
 
great post croatan hope someday i remember half of that info lol. thats what is so interesting about cigars there is so much info about them you always are learning something new each day.
 
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