Temp Control, a Bunch of Hooey?

C

ColdCuts

Evolving Lead Gorilla
I'm not trying to be controversial. I know all about beetles. I've seen the horrific pictures. I freeze incoming stock before it goes into my fridgador. So, obviously, I've already been convinced that temp control is a necessity for my cigars. So, why then do I question temp control?

Over the years, I've spent more time than I care to admit fantasizing over those big beautiful cabinet humidors that you see on many online retailer's websites. And you know, those massive armoire humidors are pricey, but they don't get out-of-this-world pricey until you start looking at the temperature controlled units. This got me glancing back over at the regular, non-temp controlled pieces, and that's when I noticed just how many more non-temp controlled units there are for sale on the web than temp controlled. Most -- by a long shot -- of what you see out there has no temperature control. And, at least one highly regarded online humidor retailer doesn't offer any temp controlled cabinets.

So, what I want to know is, if temp control is so crucial, and around here it sure seems like it is, why do so few retailers even offer it? And even when they do, if their online catalog is any indicator, it appears that most cabinet humidors being bought and sold are regular, old fashioned, RH only cabinets. What gives?
 
An excellent point.

Living here in FL it would cost an absolute fortune to keep your house temp at 70*F or below for 6 months or more per year. Being originally from NJ and living in Chicago for 5 years I know how hot the summers can get in both of those locals too.

As a newbie to the world of cigars I too am confused by the contradictory info relative to storage temp. So many say getting above 70*F you're at risk, yet others say they've been storing well above those temps for many years with no problems.

I've been doing the freeze routine with most of my incoming but I still worry about a beetle infestation.
 
I have a cabinet and I keep it in my lower level of my home. I live near Cincinnati and it can get quite warm in the summer, well into the 90's for weeks. Keeping it in the basement, and in the shade help a great deal to keep the temperature down. Thusly, the temperature rarely rises above 70 to begin with, and the high temperatures are rarely held by the humidor for more than a day or two. :tu

I feel that the cabinets are likely best used for climates that do not have high sustained temps, or atleast the people buying them are typically from places as such. Also, the cooling units that come with cabinet humidors become cost restrictive for people, it can get very expensive with the Aristocrat type humidors when you can get something the same size without the cooling unit for less than half the price.
Don't know if that helps anything, but it is my :2
 
chippewastud79 said:
I have a cabinet and I keep it in my lower level of my home. I live near Cincinnati and it can get quite warm in the summer, well into the 90's for weeks. Keeping it in the basement, and in the shade help a great deal to keep the temperature down. Thusly, the temperature rarely rises above 70 to begin with, and the high temperatures are rarely held by the humidor for more than a day or two. :tu

I feel that the cabinets are likely best used for climates that do not have high sustained temps, or atleast the people buying them are typically from places as such. Also, the cooling units that come with cabinet humidors become cost restrictive for people, it can get very expensive with the Aristocrat type humidors when you can get something the same size without the cooling unit for less than half the price.
Don't know if that helps anything, but it is my :2
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What I would do for a basement here in FL. Unfortunately no such animal exists. Dig 1 ft. down and you're hitting the water table.
 
macster said:
What I would do for a basement here in FL. Unfortunately no such animal exists. Dig 1 ft. down and you're hitting the water table.
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Basically the coolest part of your home, out of direct sunlight. Assuming you run an air conditioner, I would also put it near the vent. If you really keep your house in the 80's year round, I would go with the Vinotemp :tu
 
We keep our home between 68-74 degrees year round. I have never noticed an effect on my collection at these temps. I have only had one beetle outbreak in 20 years of smoking cigars. That was when my AC unit malfunctioned while I was away for the evening and my smoking room, which is also where my collection is stored, went to 85 before it was fixed.

I keep all my sticks as close to 65% RH as possible and the ones I age seem to do fine at this temp spread and RH.

And I know this is like blasphemy around here but I still do not freeze my sticks before putting them away. I personally don't think beetles are a problem until you get above 80. Again this is just my experience. I may be tempting fate, and may have to go back on this. But so far only one outbreak in 20 years and that was confined to 1 box when the temp went to 85.

So I guess my answer on temp controlled cabinets would be no use for me, because I keep my room temp in the 68-74 degree spread.

Just my :2
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you truly freeze everything, then there are no beetles to emerge when temps get high. My thought on large cabinet humidors is that if you're going to spend the money for one, you might as well get it temperature controlled so you don't have to worry about it. The opposite would be like ordering your Maserati for $160,000 but opting not to get the alarm for $700.
 
I guess what I was trying to say is.......I don't want the hassle of having to freeze everything before I store it. And by keeping the environment temp (room temp) 74 degrees or lower, beetles are not an issue. Why spend the extra money for temp control on my humi, when I'm already paying to keep my house at this temp weather I had a humi in it or not?

It would just be redundant for me.

AC failure or electrical failure is all I have to be concerned about, which electrical failure would take out the temp control on a humi anyway.

Just my :2

And I'm done beating this dead horse.

Mark
 
mikeyj23 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you truly freeze everything, then there are no beetles to emerge when temps get high. My thought on large cabinet humidors is that if you're going to spend the money for one, you might as well get it temperature controlled so you don't have to worry about it. The opposite would be like ordering your Maserati for $160,000 but opting not to get the alarm for $700.
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It sounds like you're saying, if you freeze first, there's no need for temp control, but if you're going to buy a cabinet, you may as well get temp control. :confused:

Speaking to your first point, even if you're freezing all incoming stock, but then ultimately moving it into your 80*F cabinet, what's to stop new beetles from finding your cigars there, well after they've emerged from the freezer?

My original point was, using your car analogy, if everyone who buys a Maserati is at great risk of having their Maserati stolen, why aren't all Maseratis -- or even most Maseratis -- being produced with an alarm system? As it stands now, even with the risk, Maserati dealers are producing and selling many more cars without alarms than with. It just doesn't make a lot of sense. If the risk is so great, why aren't alarms becoming standard?

Sticking with your car analogy, let's say you could afford the Maserati, but not with the additional cost of an alarm. (In order for this to be relevant to humidors we have to pretend that the cost of the alarm more than doubles the total price of the car.) Do you get a Maserati sans alarm, or do you not get a Maserati? This isn't a really a good analogy because most gorillas would just spend the money on cigars and take the bus. :r

OK, enough car talk. Can we get back to cigars and cigar storage? :D
 
I don't freeze cigars, I could be wrong but I don't think it's good for them... I also seem to recall reading that it takes a few days in the deep freeze to kill that eggs, a regular freezer will not do the trick...

Freezing the moisture into crystals IMO causes cellular damage to the leaf that can not be reversed and when the cigars are brought to room temp the moisture needs to be reabsorbed into the leaf... I don't see the point...

I do store my sticks in two vino's at this point, I do it because it is much easier to maintain RH in a temp controlled environment ISO a fluctuating one...
 
It was my understanding (and I could be totally wrong) that freezing only killed the beetles, not the eggs?

Living in Arizona, I just got a $139 Vinotemp for fathers day...it was a hell of a lot cheaper than a humidor that holds the same amount...and personally I think it looks cool! It sits on top of my bar.

I am relatively new to cigars, so my purchase of the Vinotemp was mostly because of precaution, and....my humi was full so I needed something bigger anyway.
 
ColdCuts said:
It sounds like you're saying, if you freeze first, there's no need for temp control, but if you're going to buy a cabinet, you may as well get temp control. :confused:

Speaking to your first point, even if you're freezing all incoming stock, but then ultimately moving it into your 80*F cabinet, what's to stop new beetles from finding your cigars there, well after they've emerged from the freezer?
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A) That's precisely what I'm saying - if you freeze first there's not a need for temp control, but if you're buying a cabinet you might as well get the bells and whistles and not have to be so anal about freezing.

B) Freezing cigars kills the beetles and beetle eggs. I'm not quite sure how a traveling band of cigar beetles is going to travel from your neighbor's house and infiltrate your cabinet.

ColdCuts said:
My original point was, using your car analogy, if everyone who buys a Maserati is at great risk of having their Maserati stolen, why aren't all Maseratis -- or even most Maseratis -- being produced with an alarm system? As it stands now, even with the risk, Maserati dealers are producing and selling many more cars without alarms than with. It just doesn't make a lot of sense. If the risk is so great, why aren't alarms becoming standard?
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Because Maserati dealers can charge more if the alarm is an add-on, and if one Maserati gets stolen, insurance pays and that person buys another Maserati.
 
At the start of this hobby, I stored my humidor in my room, which is constant 75-77*, because I live in Florida, its much to expensive to keep the house at a 70* constant. For the 1.5 years I have had the humidor in my room, I have never once had a problem with beetles, I have never frozen any cigars.

However due to wanting the ideal environment for my sticks, I went out and bought a Vino, they are now in a much better controlled environment. Draw back is I no longer have a nice humidor out, I miss that. Unless your temp is in the 80*+ range, I don't think will run into a problem, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be worried about beetles. Sometimes its just easier to get a controlled temp unit, so when your out(or away on business) you don't have to think to yourself "crap, I wonder what my humidor temp is at right now". When I first went away to college, I called my parents house at least 4 times a week to ask what the temp was, because I left a humidor behind for them to care for, it was quite annoying to have to call and ask alot, lol.
 
kgoings said:
Living in Arizona, I just got a $139 Vinotemp for fathers day...it was a hell of a lot cheaper than a humidor that holds the same amount...and personally I think it looks cool! It sits on top of my bar.
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So what is a vinotemp.... ahh. i looked that up. sweet. I have a haier brand wine cooler that I am not using at the moment. Hmmm... I think it might need to be filled up w/ cigars :D.

my wife will be thrilled!
 
Here's the bottom line for me;

I have thousands of dollars worth of cigars. If I keep growing in this hobby I'll have TENS of thousands of dollars invested in cigars.

Temperature control is in insurance policy. How can I afford not to invest in it? :ss
 
i just went with a vino when they were on sail for 140 and it paid for its self in 3 months because of being able to turn up my ac.
 
mikeyj23 said:
A) That's precisely what I'm saying - if you freeze first there's not a need for temp control, but if you're buying a cabinet you might as well get the bells and whistles and not have to be so anal about freezing.
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Well, sure, 'you might as well!' And why not? Rich guys like yourself can afford all the bells, and whistles, and Maseratis with alarm systems. But I'm not a rich guy, so that's why I started this thread.

mikeyj23 said:
B) Freezing cigars kills the beetles and beetle eggs. I'm not quite sure how a traveling band of cigar beetles is going to travel from your neighbor's house and infiltrate your cabinet.
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Easy. They'll fly. Tobacco beetles do travel. And, they're looking for more than just tobacco. From bugspray.com:

"Though they will crawl while feeding, adults like to fly which makes them particularly hard to handle. It is not uncommon to have them fly into your home during the spring or summer and once inside, make themselves unwanted permanent guests.

Though they love tobacco, cigarette beetles can thrive on just about any food stuff. They will readily eat books, furniture, stored dried plants, canvas paintings, anything made of straw, just about any spice, cookies, flour, pasta, cotton, medicine, dog food and [even] rat poison!"

mikeyj23 said:
Because Maserati dealers can charge more if the alarm is an add-on, and if one Maserati gets stolen, insurance pays and that person buys another Maserati.
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This sports car analogy has outgrown it's usefulness, if ever it had any. Let's just talk about cigars and get back to the original topic which, incidentally, had nothing to do with freezing. See first post.
 
kylej1 said:
At the start of this hobby, I stored my humidor in my room, which is constant 75-77*, because I live in Florida, its much to expensive to keep the house at a 70* constant. For the 1.5 years I have had the humidor in my room, I have never once had a problem with beetles, I have never frozen any cigars.

However due to wanting the ideal environment for my sticks, I went out and bought a Vino, they are now in a much better controlled environment. Draw back is I no longer have a nice humidor out, I miss that. Unless your temp is in the 80*+ range, I don't think will run into a problem, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be worried about beetles. Sometimes its just easier to get a controlled temp unit, so when your out(or away on business) you don't have to think to yourself "crap, I wonder what my humidor temp is at right now". When I first went away to college, I called my parents house at least 4 times a week to ask what the temp was, because I left a humidor behind for them to care for, it was quite annoying to have to call and ask alot, lol.
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Good points. Peace of mind is worth quite a bit extra.

Maybe it's only us fanatics on the forums who are so hyper aware of the possibility of tobacco beetles, and all those big non-temp controlled cabinets that we see on the web are being bought up by guys who simply don't know any better and have been lucky enough not to find out the hard way. Ignorance is bliss.
 
Comments in bold:
ColdCuts said:
Well, sure, 'you might as well!' And why not? Rich guys like yourself can afford all the bells, and whistles, and Maseratis with alarm systems. But I'm not a rich guy, so that's why I started this thread.
It's apparent you don't know me - no cabinet (cooled or not), Maserati or any sort of alarm system for me.

Easy. They'll fly. Tobacco beetles do travel. And, they're looking for more than just tobacco. From bugspray.com:

"Though they will crawl while feeding, adults like to fly which makes them particularly hard to handle. It is not uncommon to have them fly into your home during the spring or summer and once inside, make themselves unwanted permanent guests.

Though they love tobacco, cigarette beetles can thrive on just about any food stuff. They will readily eat books, furniture, stored dried plants, canvas paintings, anything made of straw, just about any spice, cookies, flour, pasta, cotton, medicine, dog food and [even] rat poison!"
Thanks for the link - I didn't realize that and I'm glad to have the information.

This sports car analogy has outgrown it's usefulness, if ever it had any. Let's just talk about cigars and get back to the original topic which, incidentally, had nothing to do with freezing. See first post.
I'm afraid the thread has proved that it has quite a bit to do with freezing. Any discussion of temp control implies beetles, which you mentioned, and any discussion of beetles brings up freezing. I realize the original question was "Why don't more cabinets come standard with temperature control since it's a necessity for cigars?" which brings in a discussion of whether or not freezing negates the need for temp control.
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I really didn't mean to start a pissing match, debate or even a one-on-one conversation. Accept my apologies for where it's gone and hopefully we can get back to your original question.
 
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