I agree with you....If Im going to spend big money on a stick it better be ready to smoke whenever I want to smoke it....and it better be good
The "Aging" Concept...
- Thread starter houdini
- Start date
I agree with you....If Im going to spend big money on a stick it better be ready to smoke whenever I want to smoke it....and it better be good
He never said big money, he said incredible stick. You seem to be projecting that the only way a stick can be great is if it costs big money and that is not true.
Better is a matter of opinion I suppose. However it is a fact that chemically a cigar changes over time and that change expresses itself in the taste of a cigar. I think the OPs current stance is a bit short sighted, for example I'm sure if he stated his current favorites we would find many, many sticks among them that are shipped aged. So are those incredible sticks less incredible because they took 5 years to get to that state?
What you are saying is you don't have the patience to age cigars, as a guy who is buying 90% aged stock I get that because I also don't have the patience to age. But I'm learning it because I think there is some truly incredible stuff out there begging for it. In essence your complaint is not that those sticks may or may not be better in 5 years, its that those cigars should be held by the maker until they are ready.
I'd also say that this is a younger smokers opinion (young in the hobby not in years), that if you look at the guys who have more than a decade in and can afford to smoke whatever pleases them its very very rare to find people who would share this opinion.
In the end smoke what you like. If thats ROTT bully for you, if its ten year old Cohibas bully for you. But I'd throw out this peace of advice that my mother seemed to give 3 times a day when I was a kid: Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't make perfect sense.....
What you are saying is you don't have the patience to age cigars, as a guy who is buying 90% aged stock I get that because I also don't have the patience to age. But I'm learning it because I think there is some truly incredible stuff out there begging for it. In essence your complaint is not that those sticks may or may not be better in 5 years, its that those cigars should be held by the maker until they are ready.
I'd also say that this is a younger smokers opinion (young in the hobby not in years), that if you look at the guys who have more than a decade in and can afford to smoke whatever pleases them its very very rare to find people who would share this opinion.
In the end smoke what you like. If thats ROTT bully for you, if its ten year old Cohibas bully for you. But I'd throw out this peace of advice that my mother seemed to give 3 times a day when I was a kid: Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't make perfect sense.....
I guess I wasnt agreeing with him then but making another point,,,
My favorite right now are 5 vegas a series...they are far from expensive and are awesome. I do hear though they get way better with age....Im going to try and age some to see how they are.
How long do you guys think?
This is the approach I take. I bought a bundle of Fonsecas a while back from an online cigar vendor. The first one I smoked was awful. It was harsh and had the most severe wrapper issues I have ever encountered. The same sticks after about a month in my humidor were far better - enough so that Fonseca is now among my favorite brands.
My budget doesn't allow me to have hundreds of sticks that sit for months (or years) in my humidor. In my situation I see aging as a "second chance" for sticks I didn't particularly like the first time around.
Folks,
If anyone thinks cigars are manufactured to be "aged", I beg to differ.
The manufacturer ages the tobacco in the curing process and when they roll them, they are meant to be smoked already.
You don't like that taste?
Too strong?
You prefer the changed profile that comes years later that more times than not tones it down?
No problem.
Experiment.
Do as you wish.
It is your preference but let that not be confused with a concept that it was rolled with that thought in mind.
That is not conceivable and not validated by any cigar manufacturer of the many, many I have personally met and spoken with.
Fresh hot bread may be great to some but others prefer days old, when can be made into crumbs, so they can make breaded veal out of it.
Is either wrong?
Of course not.
Both are great, depending on your preference.
I believe both aged and non aged should be had. Decide for yourself what it is you prefer but there is no way one can make such a blanket statement that aged cigars are better. That is just not true.
It boils down to personal taste/preferences, period. None is wrong.
If anyone thinks cigars are manufactured to be "aged", I beg to differ.
The manufacturer ages the tobacco in the curing process and when they roll them, they are meant to be smoked already.
You don't like that taste?
Too strong?
You prefer the changed profile that comes years later that more times than not tones it down?
No problem.
Experiment.
Do as you wish.
It is your preference but let that not be confused with a concept that it was rolled with that thought in mind.
That is not conceivable and not validated by any cigar manufacturer of the many, many I have personally met and spoken with.
Fresh hot bread may be great to some but others prefer days old, when can be made into crumbs, so they can make breaded veal out of it.
Is either wrong?
Of course not.
Both are great, depending on your preference.
I believe both aged and non aged should be had. Decide for yourself what it is you prefer but there is no way one can make such a blanket statement that aged cigars are better. That is just not true.
It boils down to personal taste/preferences, period. None is wrong.
Awesome post....I think Ill jump on the age train
The As just need a month or two to stabilize and they are fine. CI ships everything wet so the As need some time at 65%.
It is the original 5 Vegas that needs some time imho. The first one I tried off the truck I absolutely hated and swore I would never buy another one if they gave them away. But it was part of a five pack so I tucked the other four where I hoped I would _never_ find them again.
A year later I grabbed one and really enjoyed it.
longknocker
SilverBack
:tpd: Well stated & so true!!!The As just need a month or two to stabilize and they are fine. CI ships everything wet so the As need some time at 65%.
It is the original 5 Vegas that needs some time imho. The first one I tried off the truck I absolutely hated and swore I would never buy another one if they gave them away. But it was part of a five pack so I tucked the other four where I hoped I would _never_ find them again.
A year later I grabbed one and really enjoyed it.
Thats exactly what Im saying. Im not arguing that age wont make it better...I dont have enough time in this hobby to say that. Im just saying that a good cigar should be smokeable off the truck and I should be able to enjoy it and give it a high rating right there and then. (Shipping/ Stabilization time granted) If it gets better in 5 years...excellent...But I shouldnt have to age them to get them "smokeable". That should be the manufacturers job....Which I know many already do.
Im sorry if this started any contraversy....I was just curious to see how the rest of you felt about it.
No harm no foul brother.
Heck about a year ago my opinion was about the same as yours. I think as you lean towards CCs thats when people really get into aging. And it doesn't take a lot of time or space, I just buy about a box every two months specifically to sit on. The rest of the job takes care of itself.
I think the vast majority of CCs are good and smokeable ROTT....they are just better later.
I think the vast majority of CCs are good and smokeable ROTT....they are just better later.
Thats what I would rate a good smoke then. :tu
Some cigars are just fine fresh. I smoked a fresh AF898 a while back and it was great - people came over to ask what I was smoking.
BUT - I suspect that those who say it makes no difference or doesn't matter have not smoked very many high end aged stogies. They are deeper, softer and richer mostly.
It would not be fair to say that Chateau Mouton Rothchild is not a fine wine because it's not ready to drink when you buy it. Most wine lovers would agree that it would be a waste to drink a great Bordeaux fresh off the plane.
As somebody mentioned, fresh cigars are usually too wet. That in itself can spoil a good stick. Cheers, Larry.
BUT - I suspect that those who say it makes no difference or doesn't matter have not smoked very many high end aged stogies. They are deeper, softer and richer mostly.
It would not be fair to say that Chateau Mouton Rothchild is not a fine wine because it's not ready to drink when you buy it. Most wine lovers would agree that it would be a waste to drink a great Bordeaux fresh off the plane.
As somebody mentioned, fresh cigars are usually too wet. That in itself can spoil a good stick. Cheers, Larry.
I couldn't agree more. I have aged cigars up to four years with incredible results. More recently I purchased some real bummers (out of the box), and after only two weeks in the humi they are now quite smokeable.
I have to admit that I like my cigars newer. I've smoked a number of aged nc's and they don't compare to their reasonably fresh counterpart.
I like some firepower in my cigar though.
I can see where aging cigars to take some kick out of them would allow more people to enjoy them, and that's cool. But to say it makes them better? I'd agree with milder, but not so much "better".
I do buy wholeheartedly into letting a cigar settle after it's been shipped, although if it's been only a day and came half way across the state, I'll smoke one from a box as soon as they arrive. If they've been in the air, I'll give them at least a week in the humi before I touch them.
I'll also admit that I use the "aging" method to take some whallop out of cigars that are too overbearing for me. A month in a tray in my humi and a little air will tame a stick that I don't care for and make it very smokable.
A lot of new, less expensive cigars arrive wet and full of ammonia. Whereas they're totally gross right off the truck, a week or maybe a month or two will make them smoke beautifully.
The same cigar after a year is likely to be far more mellow, possibly to a point where I don't care for it anymore, but someone who doesn't like as bold a cigar may love it.
And the time will definately bring out certain nuances that were likely overpowered when they were young.
So, I think "better" is probably a poor description, and somewhat misleading.
Tamer, milder, older, more delicate, all those are probably a better fit.
Cool thing is that it's a tool that can be used to make the incredible array of cigar flavors out there even that much more vast. It's fun, and it's a nice addition to the hobby.
The cnobbery that surrounds "aging" is somewhat offputting, but it's going to remain. I just hope I can appreciate it for what it is rather than insisting it's somehow "better than".
Wow, that was a great post. I couldn't have put it better and I don't think I disagree with anything you said there. I tried to bump your RG but I need to spread some around before I can do it again haha.
I have to disagree with that statement. BMW's are better. :ss
I can see where aging cigars to take some kick out of them would allow more people to enjoy them, and that's cool. But to say it makes them better? I'd agree with milder, but not so much "better".
So, I think "better" is probably a poor description, and somewhat misleading.
Tamer, milder, older, more delicate, all those are probably a better fit.
The cnobbery that surrounds "aging" is somewhat offputting, but it's going to remain. I just hope I can appreciate it for what it is rather than insisting it's somehow "better than".
We can agree to disagree then, Scott.