Can a cigar age too much?

hEmInGwAy_88

Young Chimp
I have heard from some people that when a cigars wrapper begins to get spots on it it is no good... i dont know how official that statement is..... also is it possible that a cigar can be aged too much in a humidor?? im very new at the cigar hobby so im just trying to learn
 
I haven't experienced this, but I would guess yes. Wine and beer both have peaks in their aging. After this peak is reached, the quality deteriorates. Being that these are natural products and cigars are natural products this would make sense. I have read posts on CS regarding cigars losing flavors or becoming bland with age. I'm sure someone with experience will chime in....I hope so because this is just my guess.
 
the only "spots" I know of are naturally occurring leaf variances, water bleached spots (also harmless) and fuzzy spots, aka mold. Mold is bad but has nothing to do with age, everything to do with humidity

some cigars go a bit flat with age and all respond differently to aging. 20-30 seems to be nothing for a cigar that ages well, general rule stronger cigars smooth out nice, that about all *I* know for sure
 
I've never heard of a wrapper getting spots from age alone, but in general you can expect a cigar to diminish in strength as it gets older. The up side is that they tend to get more subtle as well.

I have some Camachos from 2001 that are pale shadows of what they used to be in terms of strength and body, but there's a delicate sweet spiciness to them that I've never tasted in any Camacho before. For most Camacho lovers the loss of body and strength would definitely mean these were past their prime, but I like to think of them as being "different."

And then there are those folks who like 40 year old Habanos... :hn
 
I have heard from some people that when a cigars wrapper begins to get spots on it it is no good... i dont know how official that statement is..... also is it possible that a cigar can be aged too much in a humidor??

Aging is a hotly debated question around here. Age smoothes out the smoke and will give you a great even burn. The rule of thumb I would use (not agreed to by many here) is that the peak age is:

Habanos--5 to 10 years
Strong or most Nicaraguans--3 to 5 years
Medium or most Hondurans--2 to 4 years
Mild or most Dominicans--1 to 3 years

The oldest I own are (like the previous poster) seven year old Camacho Corojos. I think they are great even though in theory they are "past their peak".

I started serious aging of cigars four years ago and have never had one I felt was past its peak.

The other highly controversial topic is whether age can make a mediocre smoke better. While the conventional wisdom here is "no" my experience has been that the answer is "sometimes". My practical suggestion is that if you don't like a smoke you should try it again a year later to see if it has changed. You may be pleasantly surprised.
 
I'm no expert but I did recently have the chance to smoke a Padron 5000 (one month old) then a Padron 5000 (eight year old) the next night. The older cigar had mellowed considerably with subtle flavors, smoothing out but losing all of it's spice. The younger cigar was very spicy with stronger flavors but a little bit harsh. I enjoyed the older cigar more but it definitely seemed past its prime. I think maybe at the 3-5 year range it would have achieved a good balance between smooth and spicy. Like every thing else, it really comes down to personal preference.
 
I haven't experienced this, but I would guess yes. Wine and beer both have peaks in their aging. After this peak is reached, the quality deteriorates. Being that these are natural products and cigars are natural products this would make sense. I have read posts on CS regarding cigars losing flavors or becoming bland with age. I'm sure someone with experience will chime in....I hope so because this is just my guess.

Completely different chemical processes. Wine requires a preservative agent to properly age, and acidity is pretty much it. But as wine ages, fruit component diminishes and drops out (in the form of sediment along with tannins and other solids) while acidity stays at a pretty much constant level. Alcohol is also a preservative, although not as important one as acidity. But you're right, of course, that wine can only go on for so long.

Beer has almost no preservatives to keep it "fresh" and thus spoils much faster.

With tobacco, strength is determined by the amount of nicotine, right? And since this is a "solid" product, not based on liquid, I am not aware of a chemical process that diminishes nicotine amount with age. Sure, as cigars age, they loose ammonia and other compounds present in freshly rolled cigars, and similar to wine, start developing more flavor and complexity. Similar to young wine, where tannins are still present, the mouth feel itself is what gives the palate an impression that wine is "bigger", while all a palate feels is the physical impact tannins have while coming in contact. Flavor is there but is dominated by tannins (abrasiveness), strength is also there as represented by fruit component, acidity and alcohol.

Same with cigars, young cigars simply present themselves differently than aged ones. Nicotine is still there. And in deference to wine, cigar is a solid product and thus, can age and stay in good shape for who knows how long. I have not heard of a cigar "going bad" with age, but of course I am talking about quality cigars that are stored in good environment.

Whether one likes cigars young or with some age on them is a matter of preference, as with any other product. I like them with more subtlety and complexity, same as wine. Even though I smoke them young to evaluate if I should buy more or not, I then tend to buy a good quantity and let them sleep and develop more (same as with wine).

As with wine, though, one must start with quality grown, fermented and processed tobacco, otherwise aging won't do much save for expunging ammonia and a few other compounds with time. So, while one would be advised to age a quality stick, there is not much sense to age cigars meant for early consumption (cheap bundles).

On the strength issue, and I see claims that cigars loose strength as they age, I do not agree. Just smoked a 35 year old RyJ Petite Corona over the 4th of July and while it showed tremendous complexity, the strength was there in spades and on similar level as fresh ones. Sadly, that was my last one.

I also have a bunch of 12-14 year cigars, CC, Nicaragua and Honduras grown, and they all show same levels of strength as fresh ones.

Thus far, my own experience contradicts a number of statements made on CS and so far I have not seen one scientific explanation in support of these claims. Or any explanation, for that matter.

I know the chemical reactions/processes that eventually let wine spoil, but so far I am not aware of ANY such process that will lead to a cigar to go bad. Is it myth? I think so, but if anyone has information to the contrary I certainly would love to hear/see it.
 
A lot of people say the Padron Anni's age poorly. I never found out, i can't save them for that long. ;]
 
A lot of people say the Padron Anni's age poorly. I never found out, i can't save them for that long. ;]

I never heard that. Padron Anni's are my favorite. As a matter of fact I have one show piece humidor, a Daniel Marshall, that I keep Padrons only in. I've had it for three years now with approimately 100 Padrons Anni's of various sizes in it all times. I replenish and rotate from time to time. I've never had a bad one but then again the longest ever stored before I nailed it would be approximately a year.

Joe
 
I have found that most cigars age well for 5 - 10 years but after that seem to kinda go flat to me.

Now granted I have never been the person that aged them so I do not really know the conditions they have been kept in.

But i am doing a box right now that has not been opened and it has been in my cooler for 7 years 8 months and 20days they are a box of Don Carlos #4's they will be opened 1-1-2011.
 
Aging is a hotly debated question around here. Age smoothes out the smoke and will give you a great even burn. The rule of thumb I would use (not agreed to by many here) is that the peak age is:

Habanos--5 to 10 years
Strong or most Nicaraguans--3 to 5 years
Medium or most Hondurans--2 to 4 years
Mild or most Dominicans--1 to 3 years

The oldest I own are (like the previous poster) seven year old Camacho Corojos. I think they are great even though in theory they are "past their peak".

I started serious aging of cigars four years ago and have never had one I felt was past its peak.

The other highly controversial topic is whether age can make a mediocre smoke better. While the conventional wisdom here is "no" my experience has been that the answer is "sometimes". My practical suggestion is that if you don't like a smoke you should try it again a year later to see if it has changed. You may be pleasantly surprised.

So the debate continues :r.

I disagree with you that peak age of a cuban is 5-10 years. I have smoked some cubans that were 30-40 years old and had not past their peaks. I do not have the best pallet but smoke with some people who do so I get lucky that they can pick out subtle flavors I am not able to identify but because of them the flavors get identified. If not for these folks much of the nuances would be lost on me and a waste of a vintage cigar. A 70's monte#4 Dunhill and a 70's party lusi are two of the best cigars I have ever smoked. I think the 80's are my favorite decade for many Cubans, I am not saying that they are necessarily better than a young cigar just different.

Just my :2
 
Depends on the cigar and how its kept.

Smoked a 100 year old Partagas last weekend that... well it was still pretty good stuff.

If I had a choice between smoking 2 identical vitolas perfectly stored ... older generally speaking would be the choice. Properly stored, time does good things to good cigars. There are exceptions to every rule though. However these exceptions many times are based upon the limited samplings of what we have been able to buy from others and do not know anthing about their upkeep. For example, are early 1980's monte especials better now then early 70's based upon the box of each that I may have? Or is is just that the 70's were not kept as well and my small personal sample is not indicitive of a controlled comparision?

The real answer is yes. If you die with cigars in your humidor... you aged them too much. :r
 
Depends on the cigar and how its kept.

Smoked a 100 year old Partagas last weekend that... well it was still pretty good stuff.

The real answer is yes. If you die with cigars in your humidor... you aged them too much. :r

:tpd:
Storage is key, and if you are using a desktop humidor, I doubt you'll be able to keep a cigar for more than a decade without some kind of mishap with heat, beetles, humidity, neglect...

What size was the Partagas? That must've been amazing! I have had my share of old wines, but nothing like that.
 
Depends on the cigar and how its kept.

The real answer is yes. If you die with cigars in your humidor... you aged them too much. :r

Yes. Unless your son will enjoy them more than you ever did.

I agree with Dave - older is (generally) better, at least in my personal experience. I have had my fair share of "expired" cigars, though. Often it is indeed more of an issue of storage and provenance than the cigar itself.
 
I wanna be Dave!

That being said, had a RP Sun Grown with a year + on it and it lost all of it's flavor. Had a Pepin Blue with a year + and it was great!

Would love to try some of the old Cubans but have just barely scratched the surface on some of the young ones! :) BTW, I am still speaking of cigars...:D
 
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