I'm done with Rocky Patel Blends

Well, while this post has gone to a place that i would have never imagined, at least it was entertaining :tu Fortunately, I only have 3 Rocky cigars left. Although, one is an OWR maduro. So, I guess some more dye is in my future :mad: I have been interested in trying the sun growns after hearing so much about them. However, like others have said, there are just other, better sticks out there to try instead. Thanks for everyone's input.
 
One quick point CigarDood. There are a lot of folks who don't knwo this but handmade cigars are pretty much all handmade. I believe an article in CA last year pointed out there are over 150 different operations in the production of a handmade cigar that are done by human hands.

Because of that one pound of leaves could produce 7 cigars today and 9 tomorrow. Its completely a crap shoot.

Cereal however is pretty much manufactured by machine, with the only human parts being the QC parts. So if you change the size and grade of your ovens and mixers you can decrease the cost of producing cereal and not have your human resources work anymore than they were previously.

Also I never said all seconds must be lower quality, but I'm pretty sure that seconds from well considered cigar makers are. And yes there are reasons you might take a $12 cigar and sell it for some lower price point, in fact in the RP world the OWR is an excellent example of how the falling perception of a cigar can drive its price down. But I'd bet any economics professor would look at a few points:

1. Do you doubt you can sell it before its shelf life is up?
2. Is the company experiencing fiscal difficulties?
3. Is $.50 today worth more than $1 tomorrow?

It is 100% economically foolish to sell something you could sell in 6 months for $1 for less than $1 today if the answers to these questions are in your favor. And it is unsound business to produce more than you can sell of something unless you plan to backstock it.

Cereal is an excellent example, General Mills first started doing private label business using cereal it was throwing away because it didn't meet quality standards. So they took a write off and turned it into a profit center. They aren't making extra frosted flakes and packaging it as Giant flakes, they are taking the cereal that wasn't good enough to be Frosted Flakes and selling it rather than throwing it out.
 
Addiction said:
I Like your answer, but its not the best path available. If I were someone new and I couldn't control my demand path it works, but I gotta believe Rocky has more control than that.

If the market will only absorb say 100,000 of product X couldn't I simply produce only 100,000? I mean the materials I harvested and planned to use only get better as they age, I could sit on them. Or I could take the extra 100,000 I made and stick them somewhere for 3 years and make them a "special exclusive" something or other and charge more for them. Heck I could get all fuente like and know that if the market only absorbs 100,000 I'm only going to produce about 20,000 and encourage people to sell them for whatever they can get for them.
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Maintaining shelf space is very costly in high production. For a volatile thing like cigars you are only going to want what you really need and I would hazard a guess they would rather big retailers like CI take some of the burden of storage.

If orders for A are down for months in a row and you can make a gain or get an even break on dumping them as seconds than you can sitting on them and you figure at the volume you are letting go as rejects you can handle the risk of them being seen as first quality, you dump them. Perhaps you really need some space because you are going to start production on your new lines and it doesn't make cost sense to buy more space... dump them. You can't predict markets as easily as that. Orders are going to go up and down and they are effected by things that are far out of your control. In the end it's all speculation and why we have CigarBid.com.

Furthermore, all your conjecture is based on the belief that marketing people aren't trying to pull off whatever they can for the highest profit margin. The fact remains that the difference in a budget stick and a premium stick is .50 worth of tobacco and the rest is marketing.

I just disclosed all my bias :p
 
Trajan said:
Maintaining shelf space is very costly in high production. For a volatile thing like cigars you are only going to want what you really need and I would hazard a guess they would rather big retailers like CI take some of the burden of storage.

If orders for A are down for months in a row and you can make a gain or get an even break on dumping them as seconds than you can sitting on them and you figure at the volume you are letting go as rejects you can handle the risk of them being seen as first quality, you dump them. ....

Furthermore, all your conjecture is based on the belief that marketing people aren't trying to pull off whatever they can for the highest profit margin. ......
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Hodwy Traj,

On your first point RP doesn't pay for shelf space. RP pays for aging rooms, in some factory somewhere, and that space is fairly cheap. Shelf space is a concern way up stream from cigar makers, and its prolly not even a concern for CI/CB.

On your second concern I think for the bigger makers before they decide to roll X cigars they have some number of orders for them. I don't think Oliva decided to roll 1,000,000 Vs and then sell them. I think they rolled some samples and hit the biggest buyers doing advance orders at discounts. Based on advanced orders they could spot the trickle down and then make a sales projection to decide how many to roll.

If orders slow down for a regularly planned line then you change your production targets. Do you think Ford is producing as many Excursions as it was 8 years ago?

All your conjecture is based on the belief that marketing people are trying to pull off whatever they can for the highest profit margin. What makes your conjecture any more valid than mine?
 
That still doesn't track. If I have more supply than I do demand the price decreases but not to the level of a second stick. My normally-a-dollar cigar might sell for 85 cents but that is still loads better than selling it for 50 cents, right?
 
Addiction said:
Hodwy Traj,

On your first point RP doesn't pay for shelf space. RP pays for aging rooms, in some factory somewhere, and that space is fairly cheap. Shelf space is a concern way up stream from cigar makers, and its prolly not even a concern for CI/CB.
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Shelf space = storage. not intended to mean retail shelf space. I was thinking of my own engineering lab and the benefit analysis that goes into how many units we produce to keep ahead of demand and how utterly impossible it is to nail it just right. In Rocky's case, the scale is large enough to be a somewhere near a significant cost.

No matter how low the cost of any one aspect, it's always about the margin. Do it cheap, more profit. Again the benefit analysis plays bit here. It's all spec.

I don't know the cigar business. I do know Rocky 1sts and Rocky 2nds and the 2nds sometimes have cosmetic things wrong with them and they sometimes are indiscernible from the first productions. I don't believe in things like reason and logic in luxury markets. If it was so easy to figure out, everyone with a good product would be a success but I think we all know there is a bit of luck thrown into the mix.


Addiction said:
Hodwy Traj,
What makes your conjecture any more valid than mine?
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Hehe, in truth, absolutely nothing and I won't claim otherwise. Dealing with surplus of a product is part of any business and moving it in creative ways is the name of the game. Sitting on surplus or maybe buying more space for the sole purpose of storing your surplus for a few months to wait out the glut isn't always going make good sense.

If there was some online game with a detailed model of the cigar biz, I would challenge you to that to solve this, because I'm no MBA and I have an inherent disbelief that there is any rational to luxury markets other than a strategy of dealing with the shortfalls when they come.
 
The only Rocky I smoke any more is the Decade. And that is rare. To many other good cigars out there to have to deal with the inconsistencies in the blends. Could have something to do with blender J. Fuego bolting to do his own cigars. That's my :2 anyway.
 
sacmore21 said:
. . . I have been interested in trying the sun growns after hearing so much about them. However, like others have said, there are just other, better sticks out there to try instead. Thanks for everyone's input.
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Don't discount them just because some "others have said". Any cigar being good, better or best is simply up to the taste buds of the smoker - you. Do I like Rocky Patels? Sure. Do I like all of them? No. And there is no rule that says I have to.


Ron
 
2 years ago, I really enjoyed the Vintage line, but now they just seem to have a one tobacco rich flavor, thats all. I tried a Decade a few days ago, was let down in a big way. Never tried a Sungrown, but its on my list of things to try.
 
Who DYES there cigars?!!!!!! Disgusting:pu.

I thought all premium hand-rolled cigars were tobacco and a little veggie glue, and maybe some h2o for curing... am I wrong???

I recently tried to findo out if there were any bi-products in cigars (esp.CC's) at all, especially grain-based, and got a resounding NO from all parties, this makes me question that.
:confused:
 
I have R4 maduros that I smoke now and then and I have never noticed a dye job. Are you sure you are smoking them and not performing oral sex on them?:bn:bn:bn

Sorry about that, it's just that some smokers do tend to slobber a lot of their cigars. But hey we all smoke differently. Grab whatever your happy with and smoke however you want.

I was never here.
 
RP is not the only one dyeing cigars. Grab just about any richly colored cigar that seems very evenly colored and wipe it with a damp paper towel and most of them will bleed color off. Maybe this will happen if they are not dyed but it seems pretty bad on a lot of cigars.
 
I read this thread in the morning and agreed with the OP. I had only tried the 90 and 92s and maybe one other. I wasn't thrilled.

Then I stopped by a little cigar store on my way home. I saw The Edge there and I thought I would give it a shot. I also noticed that several of these had cracks in the side and foot. I told the lady working there and she asked me if I wanted them for free. So I paid for one and walked out with five (total $6.50).

I smoked a cracked Edge and it burned like a champ right through the crack. Good flavor and a nice smoke. I would smoke one of these anytime. :ss
 
Addiction said:
All your conjecture is based on the belief that marketing people are trying to pull off whatever they can for the highest profit margin. What makes your conjecture any more valid than mine?
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The issue is that seeking the highest profit margin would frequently be irrational. I'll hold myself back from posting equations, and opt for a simple example instead: Let's say I have $10. I can either make one golden egg that sell for $100 or 2 silver eggs that sell for $60s each. (Let's stipulate that there are no other options.) My profit margin on the golden egg is, of course, $90, which is $50 higher than that of the silver eggs. However my total profit would be higher by making 2 silver eggs, so it would be irrational for me to make 1 gold egg.
 
Homebrewer said:
I read this thread in the morning and agreed with the OP. I had only tried the 90 and 92s and maybe one other. I wasn't thrilled.

Then I stopped by a little cigar store on my way home. I saw The Edge there and I thought I would give it a shot. I also noticed that several of these had cracks in the side and foot. I told the lady working there and she asked me if I wanted them for free. So I paid for one and walked out with five (total $6.50).

I smoked a cracked Edge and it burned like a champ right through the crack. Good flavor and a nice smoke. I would smoke one of these anytime. :ss
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Love the Decade and The Edge. Don't know which Edge you tried, but make sure you try both the Maduro and the Nat.

Depending on when you ask me, either could be my favorite Edge.

Interesting thread. I thought I was just going to scan and see some more opinions on RP's stuff, gotta love the Jungle.
 
More for us RP lovers and sorry that you had such a bad experience but it seems as though you still enjoyed it except for the dye. I have smoked just about every cigar from RP and have not experienced what you did as far as having to use a napkin to wipe as that would be disgusting after the second time I had to do that. My question is are you having an issue all of the time or is this something that comes up once in awhile?
 
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